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| Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End |
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| POSTED Saturday, June 16, 2007 08:47:16 PM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 19, 2007 12:23:22 PM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:25:28 PM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:25:28 PM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:38:41 PM |
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| REPLIED Friday , June 22, 2007 01:34:51 PM |
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| REPLIED Friday , June 22, 2007 01:57:41 PM |
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| REPLIED Saturday, June 23, 2007 09:00:00 AM |
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| REPLIED Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:57:09 AM |
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| REPLIED Saturday, June 23, 2007 11:05:06 AM |
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| REPLIED Monday , June 25, 2007 09:13:46 AM |
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| REPLIED Monday , June 25, 2007 11:10:17 AM |
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| REPLIED Monday , June 25, 2007 12:08:24 PM |
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| REPLIED Monday , June 25, 2007 06:59:28 PM |
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KING Pirate said:
I disagree all threw the movie Jack was attracted to liz thats why he couldnt get the compass to work for him he wanted her even in the end she saids it wouldnt of worked between them and again he says keep telling yourself that darling!! Again shes in denile, and hes telling her so! And then theres her reaction to him you could see shes wanted him, she wanted to run to him in Davey Jones locker but looked over at Will like Darn it I cant! But I wanted too really bad!
Jack's compass wasn't working BEFORE Liz returned in his life and even then it didn't point towards her. He only even was intrested in taking her in because he knew she wouldn't have the problem he was having... as stated before Liz and Jack met up... Jack didn't know what he wanted. That has nothing to do with Liz. And she's not in denial. That line is the same joke he used in the first. That's all it was. No character was in denial. Stop reading so much into it. And she wanted to run to him because she was happy to see he was alive but stopped herself because she remembered what she did to him. It was heartless. She didn't stop because of Will. She doesn't love Jack.
KING Pirate said:
Will and Liz reminds me of a Brother and SIster, she watched over him from the first day he was pulled out of the water, never did it seem like ture love! She was glowing from the encounter with Jack on the Pearl even Norington noticed it and called her out on it and then even she thought the compass was pointing to Jack over and Over because she felt something for him and it was growing.
Okay, Will and Liz are not Luke and Leia and nothing like a brother and sister. And she wasn't "glowing" she was smiling because she finally so a side to Jack she hadn't before and she knew how manipulate it. And no... if her feelings grew - she wouldn't have killed him. She didn't love Jack.
KING Pirate said:
To say Jack and Liz wouldnt of ended up together after Will died is crazy, saying she would of settled for one day every 10 years now thats crazier~
The writers messed this one up big time!~
Uh, no, it's crazy to think so little of a person's feelings... she would never suddenly shack up with Jack because Will died. That's just dumb and horrible writting... and the writers didn't "mess up" if they always intended this. You're the main person - aside from teenage girls - arguing that Jack and Liz shoulda been together. It'd have been horrible writing and made Liz into a heartless slut and it's not like Jack really loved her, either. The only person, aside from Will, who cared for Liz was James... and he may have cared more because he was willing to allow her to be happy with another despite his feelings for her.
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 26, 2007 07:56:25 AM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 26, 2007 08:07:32 AM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:25:18 AM |
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KING Pirate said:
You need to watch the commentaries during the movies even they said Jack was hinting around that he and her were alike thats why he was starting to like her. And that Liz was upset from her feelings for jack because she was suppose to be in love with Will but wanted Jack she was feeling guilt because of it.
You're half-right... Jack wasn't hinting they were alike but that obvious in the film - don't need the commentary to tell you this. But you're wrong on how you're reading Liz. She was "supposed" to live a person like Norrington but instead loved Will. She was using Jack to get to Will... I don't know why this is so hard to understand when it's clear as day in the film.
KING Pirate said:
Jacks compass wasnt working because he had feelings for Liz and he didnt know what he wanted more for the first time because of her.
The compass had NOTHING to do with Liz. It was broken prior to them meeting again so stop trying to use that as a logical point cause it's not. I could easily turn it around and say since it works in 3, any feelings he may have had are gone... but in truth, the compass wasn't working because of Sparrow not because of Liz. Had nothing to do with her.
KING Pirate said:
Liz first used the compass, jack convinced her she wanted the chest to save WIll, why didnt she just want to find the man she loved first. Because she trusted jack.Even then after awhile the compass started changing for her pointing to Jack because her feelings were being expressed and was noticed bye Norrington whom made a comment about them at that time there sailing for the chest in the oppsite direction and it points towards Jack at that moment she wanted Jack more then the chest. Interesting um!!
We've covered this numerous times... she felt lust for Jack or (a more logial expanation) she wanted Jack... to prove himself a good person. The compass doesn't imply any kind of love. Liz did not love the chest (and yes, she went after that and not Will because she believed it would SAVE Will just like Will believed the key would SAVE Liz) nor did Beckett love Jack.
KING Pirate said:
Even her guilt looking for the chest she thought it was pointing at Jack because she had feelings for him. SOmeone without a desire for someone wouldnt even of thought it was pointing at jack they would of walk over there thinking the chest was his direction. Interesting point number 2.
Actually, neither intresting nor a point... I've given two reasons as to why the compass could point to Jack but you stated yourself that she merely thought it was pointing at him. She states, "It certainly doesn't point to what you want most." Is she a liar because you feel the character should love another person or because she's a liar? You're strecthing for something that isn't there.
KING Pirate said:
The other point I like to make is Will died right, we all understand that he must be the captain of the dutchman.His heart is cut out he shouldnt even be able to love anyone how can you feel anything about anyone without a heart isnt that why Davey Jones cut his out in the first place.
Lame really, and unbeleiveable. Not only that hes a ghost that can pass threw things and travel underwater interesting how this guy is a good match for liz at all.
He's not a "ghost". We're not even sure he can pass through things as this may have only happened to Jones when he abandoned his duties. Also, Jones is a tormented soul... although he express little compassion we see his pain when he's in his quarters playing the theme of his love and we also see him have a tear fall from his face when his heart is being brought aboard the ship. He cut it out to not feel but it clearly didn't work. It just hurts more when it's around him.
KING Pirate said:
Also me saying Jack and Liz should of sailed off together on the pearl didnt mean they were lovers. It just makes sense now that wills dead, where else should she go she belongs with Jack and the Pearl even if she pines for Will 10 years having her anywhere else makes very little sense she has no family and no other friends but Jack.
Jack and Liz sailing off together would have been dumb and completely uncharacteristic of Liz.
KING Pirate said:
I can only think the writers ended it this way because Keria wanted off the show because its the worst possible ending for her in my eyes! NO WIll except for one day every 10 years, give me a break go sail with Jack have adventure then go see WIll for one night thats what any pirate would of done anyway!
She's not a pirate. She, like Will, is in between the law and the law-breakers. They have a sense of what's right. And the writers choose to end it this way because it was the ending they wanted and it suited the characters. Jack sailed off, alone, out of their lives the same way he sailed in. That was the perfect end.
KING Pirate said:
O yeah the ending after 10 years with a kid, thats another problem I have not once is it proven thats wills kid, we are to imagine she stayed loyal for 10 years I guess but maybe she didnt.
Now this is absurd. Stop reaching for what's not there. Seriously, it sounds like you've gotten your heart broken so many times that you hate the idea of true love even in a movie. It's Will's kid or she wouldn't have even been there and that scene wouldn't even be in the film.
KING Pirate said:
WHo knows maybe she just went to see WIll because she owed him that much!
I mean are we suppose to assume because they slept together once its wills child I mean come on 10 years is a long time and maybe she ran into Jack a few times he has black hair too.
The kid had brown hair. It's not Jack's kid. Grow up.
KING Pirate said:
They should of left the child out of it, it even makes the whole thing more unbeleiveable.
A women alone rasing a child with no money and no where to go always on the run and must guard a chest seems preaty much a stretch to me. She cant touch her fathers money the trail would lead back to her.
Sorry the ending sucked! And there are a ton of people who feel this way~
There is no MONEY TRAIL in that time that can be followed nor do we know Liz is still wanted as she is more likely declared dead. Nor is it impossible to believe a single parent could raise a child alone with a lack of money as it happens all the time.
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:59:34 AM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, June 26, 2007 02:10:23 PM |
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KING Pirate said:
Like i said there should be a part 4 there is all kinds of things to explain.
Like what? What NEEDS explaining? Cause I'm not seeing anything...
KING Pirate said:
And again I disagree with ya in many areas which is normal for someone who actually thinks ending up with a dead guy is a good thing!!
Once again the "ending up with a dead guy" is the basis for your whole argument...
KING Pirate said:
For one if you dont think Davey Jones was a Ghost? LOL comeon the guy passed threw objects he wasnt human anymore period wether he did his duties or not. The problem is Will is no better then him right now except he was going to do his duties and stay human looking big deal dead to me is still preaty much dead! The curse had nothing to do with Davey Jones not having a women waiting for him its all about just doing his duties which he negelected over a women! Thats the only thing a Women or Keria effects keeping him maybe happy with being the Dutchman captain forever and doing his duties for one night every 10 years people need to get that fact straight!
What fact? The writers expressed their is no fact behind it as they left it unresolved on purpose. I may agree Will should be captain forever but the writers have stated that may NOT be the case... and no, Jones was not a "ghost". He was given powers but he still had a beating heart and never did it imply he had ever died. He choose the job Calypso had tasked him with cause he loved her.
KING Pirate said:
Next the compus didnt work for jack because he was vexing over Liz even the commentaters said so and he even thought about her when he stated why is always the rum gone? he was remember back when he was with LIz on the Island, then he realized it was because he drank it all!
Okay, first that line was a joke line for the audience - he wasn't remembering Liz. The compass wasn't working before Liz came back into the films. The compass not working had nothing to do with Liz. How many times can this be covered before you stop looking for threads that aren't their?
KING Pirate said:
Its not uncommon for a women to have feelings for more then one man matter of fact I would say she never really loved Norrington he was just considered perfect mate for her bye her father, never once did she ever say she like him. But Norrington did comment about her deep feelings about Jack and wished she felt that way about him once!
This has nothing to do with the films... yes, women can feel for more then one person but No, Liz didn't feel that way about Jack.
KING Pirate said:
You can argue about the point of the movie all you want its a disney flick so I didnt expect a real ending type outcome anyway!
Real ending? lol We're talking about a series with skeleton pirates, Davy Jones, a Krakken, and a Goddess. lol "real ending"...
KING Pirate said:
All I am saying is Will died its really that simple hes going to be the captain of the dutchman forever he get one day every 10 years to come a shore and be with Liz whos suppose to pine for him it really is the stupidiest ending i have ever seen or heard of period.
Well, she did wait for him, didn't she? Guess she really loved him. You hated it? Well, doesn't change anything, does it? lol
KING Pirate said:
Anyone who thinks thats true love its nuts, no one who turely loved anyone would ask anyone to wait 10 years for one night with a guy whos dead what kind of life did he give Liz anyway how is this acceptable ending to a Perfect Love as you so called it.
When did he ask her to? She made her own sacrafice... it was a burnden for both of them to bear. They grew as people and if anything it shows how good of people they actually can be. Stop whining over what you think is "unrealistic" about a movie.
KING Pirate said:
It ruined the whole movie with this ending, noone in there right mind except a WIll fan would ever think this deal is exceptable!! O My god she ended up with a dead dude, but not only that she gets to see him only once every 10 years o boy now thats what I call true Love must be otherwise I would call it pure hell!
How would a "Will fan" find it acceptable? lol. You're not making any sense at all. I think it was a fine ending and fit with the characters and the story. In fact, I don't think there's any other way they could've gone except for making Sparrow the Captain but he'd never do the duty.
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 06:32:19 AM |
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:30:13 AM |
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KING Pirate said:
Your missing the whole point dude, first off Jack never had any problems with the compass he always was able to find what he wanted most at the time. Then Liz came into his life and it wouldnt work for him after that he needed others to use it.
AGAIN, the compass stopped working before Liz returned and was working fine in the finale of part 1. It's not Liz.
KING Pirate said:
Yes once Liz married Will and made her choice now the compass works for jack again!
Actually, it was working fine in the third EXCEPT in Jones Locker because it was on the otherside.
KING Pirate said:
Once again Jack was falling for liz who he was saying all the time she was a pirate just like him and bye the end she was a very good pirate in every way.
No, she wasn't. She's not a pirate nor does Jack love her or she love him.
KING Pirate said:
The comments made bye jack about The rum always being gone showed ya a hint he had liz on his mind and the compass wouldnt work for him then.
The rum line is a joke for the auidence and the first time he says it in 2 is because he didn't remember drinking it. He's not "remembering" Liz and you're looking for threads that aren't their.
KING Pirate said:
On the ship he mentioned marrying her, he was captain of a ship and they were very much alike once again he was trying to explain why maybe he was attracted towards her.
You can say he was acting this way because he's a pirate but a scene from DMC's explains he's trying to woe her because of Jones. KING Pirate said:
When she asked about why his compass didnt work, he shyed away and didnt tell her it was because he was fighting his feelings for her. He then just said my compuss works fine because he knew he was messing it up.
No, it was a sex joke implying he was impatient.
KING Pirate said:
Again when liz was attracted to Jack just as much as Jack was to Liz they wanted eachother but couldnt justify it and both fought over there feelings threw out part 2 of the movie.
Again, no. She used him to get what she wanted and then without regret, she killed him.
KING Pirate said:
SO having Will Die on the dutchman, then be forced into serving as captain of the dutchman forever coming back to the living for one night every 10 years because his heart is still alive beating in a chest isnt what I call a perfect ending.
Sorry man the ending blows~
Your opinion. Covered that already. Will's not "dead" and it's a better ending then what you're suggesting because what your saying makes no sense and in the end is irrelevant because the writers did what THEY wanted to do. How is this not enough said?
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:14:44 PM |
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Wesker said:
KING Pirate said:
Your missing the whole point dude, first off Jack never had any problems with the compass he always was able to find what he wanted most at the time. Then Liz came into his life and it wouldnt work for him after that he needed others to use it.
AGAIN, the compass stopped working before Liz returned and was working fine in the finale of part 1. It's not Liz.
Pirates Opinion:
Totally false the compass stop working for jack at the begining of part two or maybe even before that he couldnt even use it to find the key or chest himself because he was thinking of someone else.
KING Pirate said:
Yes once Liz married Will and made her choice now the compass works for jack again!
Actually, it was working fine in the third EXCEPT in Jones Locker because it was on the otherside.
Pirates Opinion:
LOL it wasnt working for jack ever, not once did he use the compass in part 3 he gave it to Will he knew where Pirate cove was and will had to use it to find him not once in part 3 did Jack get the compass to work except at the end!!
KING Pirate said:
Once again Jack was falling for liz who he was saying all the time she was a pirate just like him and bye the end she was a very good pirate in every way.
No, she wasn't. She's not a pirate nor does Jack love her or she love him.
Pirates Opinion:
I disagree 100% she was more of a pirate then most everyone except jack thats why she had tons of weapons on her and didnt need protecting she became very much a pirate. And yes Jack wanted Liz for himself and would of took her if she would of choose him.
KING Pirate said:
The comments made bye jack about The rum always being gone showed ya a hint he had liz on his mind and the compass wouldnt work for him then.
The rum line is a joke for the auidence and the first time he says it in 2 is because he didn't remember drinking it. He's not "remembering" Liz and you're looking for threads that aren't their.
Pirates Opinion:
Again rent the movie listen to the commentators dude even they say hes thinking about liz.
KING Pirate said:
On the ship he mentioned marrying her, he was captain of a ship and they were very much alike once again he was trying to explain why maybe he was attracted towards her.
You can say he was acting this way because he's a pirate but a scene from DMC's explains he's trying to woe her because of Jones. KING Pirate said:
When she asked about why his compass didnt work, he shyed away and didnt tell her it was because he was fighting his feelings for her. He then just said my compuss works fine because he knew he was messing it up.
No, it was a sex joke implying he was impatient.
Pirates Opinion:
Really a sex joke I missed it then!! No he was embarrassed to admit to her why it didnt work.
KING Pirate said:
Again when liz was attracted to Jack just as much as Jack was to Liz they wanted eachother but couldnt justify it and both fought over there feelings threw out part 2 of the movie.
Again, no. She used him to get what she wanted and then without regret, she killed him.
Pirates Opinion:
Wrong she had regret, She also felt guilt, and she also wanted to kiss him again before she left the deck watch it again she clearly goes to kiss him and he dont kiss her back.
KING Pirate said:
SO having Will Die on the dutchman, then be forced into serving as captain of the dutchman forever coming back to the living for one night every 10 years because his heart is still alive beating in a chest isnt what I call a perfect ending.
Sorry man the ending blows~
Your opinion. Covered that already. Will's not "dead" and it's a better ending then what you're suggesting because what your saying makes no sense and in the end is irrelevant because the writers did what THEY wanted to do. How is this not enough said?
Pirates Opinion:
Like I said Will isnt human anymore noone can argue that he gets to be one day every 10 years thats not enough for me!! Like I said ending sucked~ |
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 02:01:34 PM |
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KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
Totally false the compass stop working for jack at the begining of part two or maybe even before that he couldnt even use it to find the key or chest himself because he was thinking of someone else.
Wrong, it's because he didn't know what he wanted. If he wanted Liz, wouldn't it point to her? Common sense. Also, it worked in the end of 1 and we have no idea when it stopped working but my guess would be once he got the drawing of the key because that was the point where he didn't know what to do or where to go and even the crew find it SUDDENLY odd so I assume he had been his "normal" self prior to this.
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
LOL it wasnt working for jack ever, not once did he use the compass in part 3 he gave it to Will he knew where Pirate cove was and will had to use it to find him not once in part 3 did Jack get the compass to work except at the end!!
Wait... when, aside from in the Locker, did it not work? You see what I'm saying? He had no need for it in 3 so he used it as a tool to get the others... we never see it not working except when they're in the Locker (and that's self-explantory as to why it's not working) so it's incorrect to assume it didn't work till the end.
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
I disagree 100% she was more of a pirate then most everyone except jack thats why she had tons of weapons on her and didnt need protecting she became very much a pirate. And yes Jack wanted Liz for himself and would of took her if she would of choose him.
Lots of weapons do not equal big pirate. And no, all the people that betrayed eachother were more pirates then her. And never does it imply Jack "wanted her for himself" - that's your opinion but not shown anywhere in the films. She was not a pirate... she was doing, like Will, what she believed was right.
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
Again rent the movie listen to the commentators dude even they say hes thinking about liz.
Are you not getting this... they never say that. I've seen the commentary, read the scripts, watched the films, and post on their forum where they actually answer these questions that some fans are confused about.
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
Really a sex joke I missed it then!! No he was embarrassed to admit to her why it didnt work.
LOL! You must have missed it... "Why doesn't your compass work?" "My compass works just fine..." as he moves around the confiently placed cannon (another part of the joke). What does a compass do? Point North (or up - if you will)... so when Liz asked why his "compass" didn't work he immediatly took it as a comment about his man-hood which is why he makes that face and then tries and reassure her that his "compass" works just fine. Yes, it's a male impatince joke. Get it now?
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
Wrong she had regret, She also felt guilt, and she also wanted to kiss him again before she left the deck watch it again she clearly goes to kiss him and he dont kiss her back.
What did she say? Oh, that's right... that she's NOT sorry. And she's not attempting to kiss him again. She's trying to show how cold she could be. Her regret is felt later but it's never made clear if she regrets what she did or if she regrets that she HAD to do it as opposed to Sparrow doing the right thing. Also, the kiss was added in as a request from Keira so, as far as the story goes, it wasn't intended to ever had happened so you can't use that as a basis to form an opinion on her feelings towards him... either way, she still killed him and told him to his face that she had no regrets about it.
KING Pirate said:
Pirates Opinion:
Like I said Will isnt human anymore noone can argue that he gets to be one day every 10 years thats not enough for me!! Like I said ending sucked~
Yes, one can when the WRITERS state otherwise. There is no FACT that Will can or can not return to her - despite our opinions because as I said I agree with you on that part of it but that doesn't make it the truth -but in the end of 3, Will IS alive.
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 02:11:59 PM |
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| REPLIED Wednesday, June 27, 2007 04:13:06 PM |
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 05:24:33 AM |
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:43:17 AM |
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KING Pirate said:
Bottomline it dont matter Davey Jones was never suppose to cut out his own heart it was never part of the deal or the curse there is no way WIll can ever be the same again with his own heart cut out which had nothing to do with being captain of the dutchman in the firstplace.
You're posting the same argument in each topic now... Jones changed the curse when he stopped doing the job.
KING Pirate said:
I cant understand no matter what the writers or fans say how Will can infact be anything other then the dutchmans captain otherwise he would be forsure dead with his heart cut out.
Well, you may not understand it... but doesn't make it any less true. lol
KING Pirate said:
The arguement isnt wether Will is dead, because hes alive and ticking as long as the heart is kept safe that part is ture
You made a point (numerous times) saying 'WILL IS DEAD!' and 'She's with a dead guy!' etc... so that was, actually, the argument. KING Pirate said:
but is he really alive or just cant be destroyed because hes the captain of the dutchman is he infact a Spirit of himself in human form maybe a god of the sea noone really knows Is he HUMAN OR SUPERNATURAL BEING Like a Sea God.
He's not a God. He's alive and physical. Not spiritual. Whether he can do magical things now is unknown as the logic behind Jones is he could do things he wasn't meant to do because he was in the place he wasn't meant to be (ie: he's supposed to be helping souls on the other side but by staying on our side he became a monster and likely had powers not meant for him on this side).
KING Pirate said:
My arguement is Hes not ever going to be Human again, hes Captain of the Dutchman hes immortal if his heart stays protected hes like a Myth or Supernatural being nowhere did anyone say Davey Jones was A read Human Man while he was Captain of the DUtchman.
The WRITERS say otherwise... they specefically say he COULD return to human form after the 10 years and one writer actually believes he WOULD but they leave the issue unresolved on purpose. Don't say otherwise when it's not true.
KING Pirate said:
The Dutchman and its crew were a Myth, they were Supernatural beings you could call them spirits it fits to say they're human beings like me or you is false thats my arguement!
You keep changing your argument! First it was Liz loves Jack and then she lusted him and then she woulda just sailed together and then Sparrow was the main character and then Jones and Will are dead and then they aren't but they're still not human and then they could never be human again and the crew have no hearts, etc.
The flying dutchman myth (and the Davy Jones myth) are NOT what we see in the film nor were they ever Supernatrual beings. And they are, like Barbossa and his men in 1, cursed humans. They just embrace the curse because it's better then being dead in their eyes.
KING Pirate said:
But that really dont matter this subject was about Jack and Liz.
You keep changing the subject! lol
KING Pirate said:
I already said my opinion was that Jack was indeed falling for Liz thats why he didnt know what he wanted. Not only that hes the one who said What was Davey Jones down fall a women, maybe giving some insight to his problems which Clypeso did say jack dont know what he wants.
Too far of a stretch... the Calypso scene had nothing to do with Liz and Jack wasn't suddenly falling for her and become less of a pirate.
KING Pirate said:
Now Liz, she in my mind was attracted to Jack and struggled with her feelings for him, she acted like a women scorn when she left him to die. Maybe he shouldnt of told her everything he said to her was a lie back on the Pearl, he did say preaty much but that didnt mean everything. Because she acted bitter but then afterwards had regret!
Best part of this statement "in my mind"... that's fine and dandy but that's no the case with what's in the film.
KING Pirate said:
Whatever you call it feelings or lust she did have something for jack!
She wanted him to be a good man. She, like most women do, was trying to change him into something he wasn't... she was making him more like Will! But it wasn't love or lust. It was because he was a no good pirate but she still considered him a friend (even if a pretty crappy friend).
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 01:00:13 PM |
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 01:35:29 PM |
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 01:57:20 PM |
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| REPLIED Thursday, June 28, 2007 02:10:43 PM |
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