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Brokeback Mountain BOARD Home   Brokeback Mountain Forum NEW POST REPLY Who's Here? None in this thread. 58 users total online. Moderators: Darth Malevolance. Jack's Fate mochacello Member Oklahoma City,OK POSTS: 1 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-04 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME POSTED Saturday, February 04, 2006 09:37:16 AM I just saw the movie last night with my husband and on the drive home as we were discussing it, he mentioned that in the scene where they are on the last "fishing" trip and Ennis comes from behind to hug Jack Jack had a lesion. Did anyone else notice this because I missed it? That seemed to make Jack's fate a little clearer. He possibly contracted the virus in Mexico and evidently his wife and father-in-law (wasn't he in the scene where they were bashing him?) found out and had him killed. Edit  Reply w/quote AlmaJr Member New York,NY POSTS: 30 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-12 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Saturday, February 04, 2006 04:59:09 PM WowMochacello! I never considered the virus - HIV you mean? Well, the scene where Ennis is holding Jack at the fire and humming in his ear was actually a flashback to 1963 - so HIV wasn't in the era. I wish it could've stayed that way. And that scene was back on Brokeback, before the mexico days. So it wasn't actually 1983 or so, it was 1983 when they were arguing, with all that unresolved pain, like "I don't know how to quit you" and "you did this to me, you made me this way, I'm nothin', I'm nobody..." After that terrible scene is when one of them (I think Ennis) flashbacked to 1963 next to the fire in his own mind. I guess it was a way to ease 20 years of pain. So if Jack had a lesion, it was just from the rough sheepherers life (or a few rough scuffles and wrestling with Ennis) I never even considered HIV. Didn't HIV first get public notice in America in 1985? Someone let me know. So the father in law would've killed Jack for being gay alone. But, in the short story, Annie Proulx does not make it at all a fact that Jack was killed in a hate crime - it's more of what Ennis was thinknig, his ultimate fear. I saw it weeks ago and it still stings.[SPOILER] scene [/SPOILER][spoiler][/spoi ler] Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Sunday , February 05, 2006 11:28:57 AM The Hugging/ humming scene was INdeed a flash back to 63 & the leison was infact a bruise that Jack sustained when Ennis hit Jack for "lassoing him" I Think I got it right....Have to watch the film again. Ken carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote jan_x Member Los Angeles,CA POSTS: 13 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-27 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Sunday , February 05, 2006 11:13:14 PM Jack killed himself---he even told his wife he wanted his ashes to be scattered on Brokeback. God damn selfish Ennis always hurted everyone who loved him. He always had excuses not to do anything for those who loved him---Jack, Almr, his girl friend, his daughter. Even Randii went to Jack's parents's farm. Jack was totally in despair. Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Tuesday, February 07, 2006 07:40:24 AM How do you know this is the way Jack died.???Do you know sommat we the others dont??? Kencarps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote jan_x Member Los Angeles,CA POSTS: 13 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-27 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:22:17 AM I don't know nothing. I just feel it. I look into Jack's eyes, and see the difference between the two "Ennis-leaving" scenes: after hugging/humming and after quarrelling the last together. I think if Jack killed himself, his love was more complete. If I were him, I would do so. Edit Reply w/Quote xeriscape8321 Member Fort Lauderdale,FL POSTS: 4 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-01 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Wednesday, February 08, 2006 06:12:39 AM Jack was killed in a gay bashing. You get thet clue (given by the director in the form of a flash memory) when Ennis was on the phone with jacks wife and she is describing her whitewashed version of what happened. The whole farm machine accident story was contrived to explain the condition of the body after the beating he endured. It's just a small flash of a scene in the movie but it explains a lot to the audience. I'm told that this is fact is clearer in the original short story. Edit Reply w/Quote jan_x Member Los Angeles,CA POSTS: 13 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-27 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Wednesday, February 08, 2006 07:14:01 AM You are correct, and it's the mainstream explanation. What Jack's wife told is implied by her fake nails---fake story. Ang used Ennis' illusion to show audience another possibility. Since both of these are not 100% certain, it's open to us for free postulation. I'd prefer Jack killed himself. I suspect if Ennis really loved Jack like Jack loved him. Even Randii went with Jack to his parents' farm, but Ennis always had excuses not to do anything for anyone who loved him. And that's why he said:"Jack, I swear." at the end of the movie. At that moment, he finally decided he would never hesitate, and it's indicated by the background music---the sound of the guitar is full of confidence this time, not like that at the very beginning, "guitar----stop----guitar again". For his whole life, Ennis never made up his mind to love which one single person. Maybe he thinked loving a guy was somewhat not normal, but he did loved Jack, so he was confused. He understood the true meanning of love after Jack died. If I were Jack, I really can't deal with guys like Ennis---always being swayed by considerations of gain and loss. That's why I said if I were Jack, I would kill myself. Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Wednesday, February 08, 2006 08:12:45 AM If you look closely again you will see that when E& J part at the end of the scene where E tells J "why cant you leave me be "ETC... Jack then remembers when they 1st met & in a flash back remembers the Hugging/humming scene then Ennis rides away & Jack looks after him with the love in his eyes & then it flashes forward to Ennis driving away in his jeep/wagon & jack is looking after him with sadness in his eyes. I am only 50% certain J was killed in a gaybashing but the more times I watch & hear his wife telling Ennis about the way J died them ore Im inclined to believe that it was a whitewash story to hide the real truth..that he WAS murdered...Oh god why did it have to end this way????? Im still numb and upset & its only a film...Oh yes!!Who was Randi?? was he the bloke the was "inviting Jack to the log cabin that time when they were sitting outside the hall while their wives were powderin their noses??? Someone please tell me!! Bet he was responsable for Js death as he might have been trying to trick Jack into revealing his true way of life tho he could have been on the level..God some much unanswered in this film..There just gotta be a sequell. Ken carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote jan_x Member Los Angeles,CA POSTS: 13 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-27 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Wednesday, February 08, 2006 09:26:11 AM Yeah, Randii is that guy. But I'd prefer he is not a bad guy who induce Jack to show the true because he might be in risk too. You're right about this film having a lot of unanswered questions, and it makes the film a great one. The film is alive, and it's communicating with everyone. Edit Reply w/Quote vksahg Member Drla,n/a POSTS: 5 MEMBER SINCE: 2005-12-06 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Thursday, February 09, 2006 12:05:15 PM Howdy! Why dont you all read the shortstory instead? Will answer many questions: That tender scene (where Jack is sleepy) after their last meet/fight is JACKS flashback from 1963. No farmhand for about five years would have perfect skin! (Dont you know any working men at all?!) In the story its not quite clear weather Jack has an accident and the rest is all in Ennis traumatic imagination. As the film cant show what people think and dream, it lacks things that make the original shortstory much more heartbreaking. But i love the film anyway; those two must be the cutest cowboys ever! Anna (SWE) Anna Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Friday , February 10, 2006 02:48:41 AM Thanks Anna. Exactly as I said in my post above. Ken Carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote vksahg Member Drla,n/a POSTS: 5 MEMBER SINCE: 2005-12-06 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Friday , February 10, 2006 11:23:35 AM Hello Ken, well , i do disagree on your conspiracy theory. Actually i think Lureen (Jacks wife) was a bit bitter, but while she speaks to Ennis i think she realizes and in a way accept the fact of these two mens close "fiendship"; why would she tell Ennis to go to Jacks birthhome to get his ashes and so on? That Randi character does not exist in the shortstory, but Jacks father talking to Ennis about the Texas neighbour is there. So i dont think Randi is an evil person. Maybe leaving the question about wheather Jack has an accident or is killed not answered makes the story better. I think the theme; of the lovestory and the choises we make in life and how we take care of people we love throughout our life is what makes this story so powerful, because it makes you start thinking of what is truly important in life. Sweden taking a winebreak Anna Edit Reply w/Quote Lillith 1 Member Fort Pierce,FL POSTS: 1 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-12 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Sunday , February 12, 2006 12:14:51 PM Thank you all for your insightful posts. Here is another idea. In their last meeting, I heard Jack say he was having an affair with someone's wife and it seemed he was referring to Randy's wife. Then Jack's father told Ennis that Jack had talked to him about starting a ranch with Ennis and, later, with some other man. I'm thinking he took up with Randy after breaking up with Ennis. Could be Jack was lying to Ennis about an affair with Randy's wife and was actually having an affair with Randy. Remember Randy didn't want to dance with his own wife and Jack asked her to dance. Could also be he WAS having an affair with Randy's wife to prove to himself he wasn't gay. Then his father-in-law found out about it and killed him. Jack's father-in-law hated him from the beginning. Jack said he thought his father-in-law would pay him to go away. Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Monday , February 13, 2006 01:08:24 PM You are right. Dont for get that E told J hed kill him if he ever found out what J got up to in Mexico & I took it to beleive with ANY man so as you rightly say J told E that he was having an affair with that particular woman meaning really it was the husband (Randi) so as not to get any strife from Ennis. Whadda a film. Ken carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Monday , February 13, 2006 01:08:33 PM You are right. Dont for get that E told J hed kill him if he ever found out what J got up to in Mexico & I took it to beleive with ANY man so as you rightly say J told E that he was having an affair with that particular woman meaning really it was the husband (Randi) so as not to get any strife from Ennis. Whadda a film. Ken carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote hege Member oslo,in POSTS: 1 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-14 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:57:02 AM Hei. BB is an amazing movie.... Never has a movie had such an inpact on me... It`s the best movie, and the sadest, i`ve seen in a long time. About Jack`fate; the first thing that hit me, when Randi suggested that he and Jack should go fishing together, was that Jack realized that he beeing gay was somewhat noticable for others, that it was not something he could hide anymore. Mabye he for the first time feared the future (remember Ennis` story). And that he got into a relationship with Randi`s wife just to proove otherwise. Edit Reply w/Quote Limbo Member Monterey Park,CA POSTS: 3 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-15 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Wednesday, February 15, 2006 01:05:07 AM Okay, this is going to throw a wrench in these theories... A girlfriend at work says Randy was one of the guys shown in the flashes of Jack getting beaten to death. Honestly, the flash of the fight scene was so short I didn't recognize any of the faces. Someone said they saw three guys, I only noticed two. Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Friday , February 17, 2006 01:26:35 PM Hi. There were indeed 3 guys beating Jack to death. I freeze framed it just to see if one of em was Randi but as far as I could make out none were & I didnt reconize any of em..It makes me feel so mad that this beaut of a film had to have J "murdered " if that is what happened. Ken carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote AndreaEA Member Cresco,IA POSTS: 1 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-17 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Friday , February 17, 2006 09:19:33 PM i took the ending as this-Jack didnt want to hide as much as Ennis did. so when they broke up it seemed that Jack got together with Randy, maybe they didnt hide it as good as J and E did. people found out and J was killed for it. Also when J's wife was talking to E she seemed to know, and that was just what she told people because she was ashamed. she didnt seem to show much emotion when talking about his death, also what did that last letter E got say. i didnt catch all of it Edit Reply w/Quote Limbo Member Monterey Park,CA POSTS: 3 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-15 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Sunday , February 19, 2006 12:33:57 AM Thanks Carps! It was really bugging me. This is one of those all time great movies that leaves you thinking about it long after you've seen it. Edit Reply w/Quote Carps1000 Member Sussex,in POSTS: 38 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-01-28 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Sunday , February 19, 2006 07:15:27 AM Hi Andrea EA. Ennis last letter said..." Hows a bout a meet up in November can you make it?? Remember when they had their last meet & E told J that it wouldnt be B4 Nov when they could meet up again?? & they had a fight..well obviously Ennis thought that he would be gracious & generous in allowing allowing himself the time to spend a few days in Nov with J..I know he didnt mean to appear selfish but well I would have been cross with Ennis myself. Anyway Jack never got that letter as he was killed B4 he got it..so it was returned to Ennis marked "Deceased".Just another thing to make you brakedown and cry yr eyes out...Ken Carps1000 Edit Reply w/Quote Nippon Member Singapore,n/a POSTS: 1 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-02-20 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Monday , February 20, 2006 01:55:38 AM My theory: Jack wife's found out about E & J, and she is the one who ordered the murder of J... It shows during the phonecall where she is cold, angry, and yet, miserably sad... She lied, and yet, she is straight fwd in relating to her anger ...She loves J, yet, she hates him more for his betrayal... This movie is just a classic. Rgds, Chris Edit Reply w/Quote gerrijuice Member San Diego,CA POSTS: 5 MEMBER SINCE: 2006-04-27 READ MY PROFILE ADD TO FRIENDS VOTE FOR ME E-MAIL ME REPLIED Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:56:08 PM You all have interesting points. I didn't even kow that the other guy was Randi until I read everyone's response! Both the short story and the movie does not confirm that Jack died of a gay bashing but it was all in Ennis's head. However, realistically, Jack most likely died that way. Here is my theory: I agree with several of you who said Jack did not "hide" it as well as Ennis did and that is why he probably got caught. Remember in the bar scene when Jack was tryig to pick up the Rodeo Clown (w/o the make up) and buy him a drink? The Rodeo Clown noticed that the Barman noticed Jack was tryinbg to pick up on him with the look Jack was giving the Rodeo clown. Then the Rodeo Clown figures it out and says something to Jack to the effect that he knows what jack's up to and leaves disgusted and tells his buddies at the Pool table that Jack was gay or something...then the buddies looked at Jack and Jack quickly leaves the bar. I think word got around from there that he was gay. It may have gone around to Lureen's dad. In the short story, after Joe Aguirre tells Jack to "get the hell out of my trailer" when Jack inquires of summer work and Ennis, the short story says Jack fled to Texas b/c he now knows that Joe knew because of his binoculars hanging on his car mirror. This tells another way that "word" got around about Jack. If Jack's dad knew about Ennis, I think Jack's dad may have helped spread the word, too. Thus answering my point that Jack may have not hidden his secret well like Ennis did especailly he started to date another guy. Edit Reply w/Quote NEW POST REPLY

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