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plot hole?
jcfan54
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POSTED Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:50:07 AM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
ok i have a question. in T3 arnold says john and kates kids become important in the war. arnold also says that the war still ends in 2032 even though judgment day was postponed. so in T:S which takes place in 2018, kate was pragnent, that would mean even at the end of the war. their kid would only be 14 years old. so how could a 14 year old be that important in a war? i know kids could fight in a war but how could they be important to the resistance?

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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Amigo
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:47:18 AM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
How old was John in T2?

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jcfan54
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:08:36 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
he was 13 but still he wasnt super smart, yeah he knew how to hack atms and stuff but he wasnt a true soldiar yet. arnold makes it sound like johns kids would be like big time soldiars that were commanding troops and winning key battles. i just think that 12, 13 years old is a little to young to be in a position of authority, even if youre in the middle of a war to save mankind.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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Jadedfate77
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 01:38:13 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
Maybe they already had kids and we just don't see them or hear about them in the movie?

jcfan54 said:

he was 13 but still he wasnt super smart, yeah he knew how to hack atms and stuff but he wasnt a true soldiar yet. arnold makes it sound like johns kids would be like big time soldiars that were commanding troops and winning key battles. i just think that 12, 13 years old is a little to young to be in a position of authority, even if youre in the middle of a war to save mankind.
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Ficadin02
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 02:49:05 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
Or maybe their important to the resistance by catching rats to eat, or giving Connor a big huge after a long day...

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clarks_fan
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 03:21:37 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
Amigo said:

How old was John in T2?


He was 11.

John was never brought up in a world of war and Terminator's, so has never needed to know how to fight or defend himself. If his children were to be born 2018, they'd grow up throughout the conflict and have the knowledge and training that their father had never had as a child.

Plus how do we know the war will end in 2032? Terminators sent back in time shouldn't know this as they would have been sent back from before the conflict ended, otherwise why would Skynet need John and Sarah dead if they have already won or been destroyed?

My top movies of 2009

1. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
2. Star Trek
3. District 9
4. Curious Case of Benjamin Button
5. Transformers 2
6. Terminator Salvation
7. Watchmen
8. This Is It
9. Inglorious Basterds
10. Bruno
11. Wolverine
12. Friday 13th
13. Monsters Vs Aliens
14. Angels and Demon's
15. Hannah Montana
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jcfan54
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 03:57:10 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
clarks_fan said:

Amigo said:

How old was John in T2?


He was 11.

John was never brought up in a world of war and Terminator's, so has never needed to know how to fight or defend himself. If his children were to be born 2018, they'd grow up throughout the conflict and have the knowledge and training that their father had never had as a child.

Plus how do we know the war will end in 2032? Terminators sent back in time shouldn't know this as they would have been sent back from before the conflict ended, otherwise why would Skynet need John and Sarah dead if they have already won or been destroyed?


McG said they are including T3 in their timeline. and so in T3 arnold says the war was gonna end in 2032 and john connors character in T3 says that the terminators came after him when he was 13. unless that was just a goof on the film makers part.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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JHBLADER05
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 06:58:46 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
They honored T3's date of Judgment Day, but they dont necessarily have to honor the entire events of the film. The saga can still end in 2029 with Reese going back in time.

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jcfan54
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 07:21:36 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
JHBLADER05 said:

They honored T3's date of Judgment Day, but they dont necessarily have to honor the entire events of the film. The saga can still end in 2029 with Reese going back in time.


but then that is just getting to be confusing by honoring the date but not the events? so does that mean that arnold wasnt even sent back to 2003? or that there even is a T-X?

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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Man-spider/Ve
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 07:42:30 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
jcfan54 said:

clarks_fan said:

Amigo said:

How old was John in T2?


He was 11.

John was never brought up in a world of war and Terminator's, so has never needed to know how to fight or defend himself. If his children were to be born 2018, they'd grow up throughout the conflict and have the knowledge and training that their father had never had as a child.

Plus how do we know the war will end in 2032? Terminators sent back in time shouldn't know this as they would have been sent back from before the conflict ended, otherwise why would Skynet need John and Sarah dead if they have already won or been destroyed?


McG said they are including T3 in their timeline. and so in T3 arnold says the war was gonna end in 2032 and john connors character in T3 says that the terminators came after him when he was 13. unless that was just a goof on the film makers part.

i thought arnold just said he kills john connor in 2032? (july 4th 2032)

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JHBLADER05
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 08:57:19 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
jcfan54 said:

JHBLADER05 said:

They honored T3's date of Judgment Day, but they dont necessarily have to honor the entire events of the film. The saga can still end in 2029 with Reese going back in time.


but then that is just getting to be confusing by honoring the date but not the events? so does that mean that arnold wasnt even sent back to 2003? or that there even is a T-X?


No, those events did happen, but time travel doesnt make sense in the Terminator universe because in real life, if something went into the past, it always happened that way (and no, I didnt say that because of LOST), but in the Terminator franchise, there was a straight timeline that went unaffected, and then time travel happened, but in the Terminator universe when you get to the point in the future where the traveller was sent from you dont have to send that being. The only paradox in the Terminator timeline is Kyle Reese always being John Connor's father.

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Amigo
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 09:41:10 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
clarks_fan said:

Amigo said:

How old was John in T2?


He was 11.

John was never brought up in a world of war and Terminator's, so has never needed to know how to fight or defend himself. If his children were to be born 2018, they'd grow up throughout the conflict and have the knowledge and training that their father had never had as a child.

Plus how do we know the war will end in 2032? Terminators sent back in time shouldn't know this as they would have been sent back from before the conflict ended, otherwise why would Skynet need John and Sarah dead if they have already won or been destroyed?


For someone that was 11 and raised without any military training he did a hell of a job surviving two terminators and growing up and surviving continuous attacks to become the leader of the resistance.

It's all about the desire to live. To remain alive even with insurmountable odds against you...kind of like a Terminator hunting you down just because you are going to become someone that could stop the machine takeover.

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HOTSHOTFX
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:06:11 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
I agree that when it comes to talking about time travel especially in the terminator universe its all to confuseing, but if theres one thing that we know its that john connor is in fact a"paradox" within the time line. Therefore john is the only one due to his actions,contact with others, and commands to others that can actually change anything that is happening in the present , and furture within the Orginal time line. Also as being a "Paradox" he would be the only one uneffected by any change in time that would occur around him Example being (present john is friends with present Tom , present john knows someone has gone back in time and killed past Tom.In the Present no one would no anything about Tom expect for john any actions present Tom had done or interactions present Tom has had would not exist, the only person with knowledge of any of present Toms events would be John. Any other past events involving Tom with john of great importance i.e john almost getting hit by bus Tom being the person that pulled him out of the way would all become another "Paradox" within the timeline .in this case the event still ocurred and john would still be the only one who remember the event the way it happened where as others would remember the key event happening but there recollection of this event would be misty at best and the recollection of the person who saved jon i.e Tom would be blocked out.) this is only a few things that john the "paradox" is capable of, in fact he might also still exist even if keyle resse happens to died or not be sent back in time. - just a couple of thoughts

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Darth Ravenous
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REPLIED Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:38:07 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
That's the problem with too much time travel in a series it really messes things up. That was one of the problems in Hereos "too much time travel" In my opinion Back to the Future is the only movie that has really gotten it right and maybe Millenium (where they came back from a future where humans were infertile and took people from planes that were about to crash because they would eliminate potenital paradoxes).

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REPLIED Friday , June 12, 2009 12:35:38 AM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
Darth Ravenous said:

That's the problem with too much time travel in a series it really messes things up. That was one of the problems in Hereos "too much time travel" In my opinion Back to the Future is the only movie that has really gotten it right and maybe Millenium (where they came back from a future where humans were infertile and took people from planes that were about to crash because they would eliminate potenital paradoxes).


Back to the Future only makes sense if you believe in multiple universes, but if you believe in one timeline there are still plot holes.

If you go with the multiple universe theory then whenever Marty travels through time he isnt following a single path, but arrives in a different universes timeline. So when he comes back home and sees his parents are successful he is now living in that universe, but gone from his original, as seen in BTTF2.

If you go with the single timeline theory then it makes no f-ing sense at all because his parents would have always been successful since Marty was always supposed to be in the past, and Chuck Berry stole Marty McFly's "Johnny Be Good."

But here's how time travel works in the Terminator universe...

Kyle Reese will always travel from 2029 to 1985 to protect and impregnate Sarah Connor.

The timeline continues [b]without[b/] the events of T2 until 1997 when SkyNet declares war on humanity. The timeline still continues with John eventually becoming leader of the Resistance until 2029 when he sends Kyle back, but this time SkyNet decides to send another Terminator to attack John as a child, and a reprogrammed T-800 is sent back to protect John from the T-1000.

This causes Sarah, John, and the T-800 to attempt to avert Judgment Day by destroying Cyberdyne. With the destruction of Cyberdyne they changed the future by delaying Judgment Day.

SkyNet is now created under CRS and declares war in 2004 which is where we get the events of T3. These events have now become a paradox because of the events of T2 because John ending up in the fallout shelter was how he always survived Judgment Day of 2004, whereas originally he survived because he lived in South America, and SkyNet didnt attack below the equator in the original 1997 JD attack.

Now that JD has happened though, John is facing a future that is different than what Sarah told him, who was told by Kyle. Now John can manipulate the timeline again when he reaches the time machine in 2029. He will need to send Kyle back to protect Sarah and impregnate. That must happen or he'll never be, but if he can prevent the T-1000 from going back in time then there wont be a need to send the 2nd T-800 thus slowly correcting, but not fully fixing the timeline.

Kyle will still be in a new 1985 with memories of the events of the JD that occurred in 2004. It's only after he dies that the timeline will be fully fixed because the events of T2 wont happen, thus the events of T3 wont happen, and JD can run its proper course in 1997 instead of 2004, and the Kyle Reese we originally knew will be born, experience the events he told us in the first film, travel back in time, and tell Sarah in the fixed 1985 about the future and her son John.

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jcfan54
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REPLIED Friday , June 12, 2009 05:57:00 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
i hate time.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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REPLIED Friday , June 12, 2009 06:19:23 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
John was actually 10 is T2, no matter what T3 says.

Best of 2009:

1. Transformers 2 - 10/10
2. The Hangover - 10/10
3. The Blind Side - 9.5/10
4.2012 - 9.5/10
5. Paranormal Activity - 9.5/10
6. Fast and Furious - 8.5/10
7. Friday the 13th - 8/10
8. Monsters vs Aliens - 8/10
9. Wolverine - 8/10
10. Terminator 4 - 8/10
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jcfan54
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REPLIED Friday , June 12, 2009 07:06:12 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
you guys act like T3 wasnt part of the series. and john did not look like he was ten in T2 he had to be at least 11 but i would say 13 fits more. when does T2 take place? because T1 takes place in 1984 so that means T2 would have to take place in at least 1994 for him to be 10 years old.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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REPLIED Friday , June 12, 2009 07:59:38 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
jcfan54 said:

you guys act like T3 wasnt part of the series. and john did not look like he was ten in T2 he had to be at least 11 but i would say 13 fits more. when does T2 take place? because T1 takes place in 1984 so that means T2 would have to take place in at least 1994 for him to be 10 years old.

i always thought T2 was in 1997?

EDIT: according to imdb it took place in 1994, so he has to be 10
http://www.imdb.com/title
/tt0103064/synopsis

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jcfan54
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REPLIED Saturday, June 13, 2009 03:53:32 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
Man-spider/Venom fan said:

jcfan54 said:

you guys act like T3 wasnt part of the series. and john did not look like he was ten in T2 he had to be at least 11 but i would say 13 fits more. when does T2 take place? because T1 takes place in 1984 so that means T2 would have to take place in at least 1994 for him to be 10 years old.

i always thought T2 was in 1997?

EDIT: according to imdb it took place in 1994, so he has to be 10
http://www.imdb.com/title
/tt0103064/synopsis


well that makes more sense then, do they ever say in T2 what year it is? because i just watched it a couple of days ago and i dont remember it saying the year so i always assumed it was 1991 or 1992.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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TheRiddlerKid
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REPLIED Saturday, June 13, 2009 05:53:36 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
some of us talk as if Terminator 3 never happened for primarily two reasons. One, the Sarah Chronicles TV series erased those event from occurng, and two, the movie just wasn't good.

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jcfan54
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REPLIED Saturday, June 13, 2009 07:15:56 PM Delete post? (Moderator ONLY)
TheRiddlerKid said:

some of us talk as if Terminator 3 never happened for primarily two reasons. One, the Sarah Chronicles TV series erased those event from occurng, and two, the movie just wasn't good.


yeah well T:S erased the Sarah Chronicles and i personally thought that T3 was a good film. yeah it wasnt the same quality as the other terminators but as a film it was pretty good.

my movies for 2009

1. Terminator Salvation
2. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
3. Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
4. Star Trek
5. Fast and Furious
6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine
7. Taken
8. the International
9. Knowing
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