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| POSTED Monday , January 28, 2002 10:00:19 AM |
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| REPLIED Sunday , May 26, 2002 05:44:55 AM |
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| REPLIED Sunday , May 26, 2002 08:52:35 PM |
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| REPLIED Saturday, November 22, 2003 05:30:37 PM |
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| REPLIED Friday , January 02, 2004 09:33:07 PM |
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"Greeks Rule?"....I am both proud and humbled to be one...Greek that is...but yes they do!!!!
The Greek language is approx. 7,250 years old......
From Mathematics, {science}, Geometry to Philosophy, from Geology to Paleontology, Poetry to Architecture, Aesthetics and art; insurance company names: Asteron, to the names of motor vehicles: Scorpion, Sigma, Astra, Echo, Magna, Apollo, Stratos, Kalon, Trios, Astina, Mira, Mentor, Triumph, Odyssey, Olympic Classic, Neon, Calais, Micra, Metra, Proton, Lexus, and the Focus. From the Zodiac signs in Astrology to Zoology from Anthropology to Astronomy, from the "Apollo" space Program, History & Geography, Physics, from Meter to Meteor and {Linkin' Park's album} "Meteora" from Glossary to Bibliography to the names of Stars and Planets, from Idol to Idiosyncrassy, from Psychologist, Psychiatrist, Podiatrist, Psysiotherapist, Chiropodist, Neurologist to Cardiologist to ECG (Electrocardiograph) in medicine to the Greek language which is found in all continents of this Planet...in {Japan, in China, in Indonesia, in South and North America}, in Europe and in {Africa}, from Mesopotamia of Micronesia to Melanasia to Polynesia.....Greeks are truly the "citizens of the world." From the Bible to Catholic, Orthodox, Apostolic, Christadelphians, Christians, to Mass, Eulogy, liturgy, Eucharist, Christ, canons, ecclesiastical, to Apocalypse to Apocrypha, from Comedy, Drama, Satyr, Theatre, Music, from the Telephone to the Radio....Greek and the Greeks can be found in every sphere of human existence...Antarctica to the Arctic Circle......all Greek words!!!!! From Democracy to Nanotechnology, from Marsailles to Syracuse to Naples to Calabria to Sicily, Latinus who founded Latium (Latin) was the son of Odysseus and Circe) no wonder Julius {Caesar} maintained he was from Aphrodite's lineage and Marc Antony maintained he was of the lineage of Hercules - the {Italians} have a saying that applies to the themselves and the Greeks - "Una fatsa, una ratsa...one face, one race) from Alexandria in Egypt, from Ambouria & Neapolis in {Spain} to the Yunnan province in China, to the Kalash in n. Afghanistan (who claim heritage from the Greeks of Alexander the Great, from Basil to Daphne, Thyme and Mint, to Pharmaceuticals to Phantoms, from Pyrric Victory, Pandora's Box, Achilles Heal, Hoi Polloi, Elysian fields, Kyrie Eleison, Hippocratic Oath, Oedipus complex, Trojan horse, Troy, Platonic love, Herculean task, Eureka, "I Am the Alpha and the Omega" (Jesus Christ)....and many, many, many more...too many to mention....millions...
From Alexander, Alexis, Ambrose, Andrew, Basil (Bill), Christopher, (Chris) Dimitri (Jimmy) Dionysius (Dion & Dennis), Eugene, George, Gregory, Jason, Leander, Homer, Leon, Leonides, Nickolas (Nikita, Nick, Nicola, Nicole), Nicodemus, Peter, Philander, Philemon, Philip, Stephen, Theodore, Theophilus, Timothy, Theodosius, Odysseus (Ulysses), Aristotle, Eleftherios (Terry), Konstandinos (Kosta, Con, Dino, Constantine)....
From Agatha, Agnes, Alexandra, Althea, Angelica, Angela, Ariana, (Ariadne, Dona), Barbara, Cassandra, Catharine, Chloe, Christina, Christiana, Cynthia, Delia, Zeta, Theodora (Dorothy), Eudora, Eunice, Euphemia, Evangelina, Helen, Irene, Lydia, Margaret, Olympia, Penelope (Penny), Philomena, Sophia, Sophronia, Urania, Zenovia (Genevieve), Zok, Theodosia, Dimitra (Demi, Dimity), Aphrodite, Anastasia, Anthea, Pandora, Moira, Mia, Nina, Nia, Leah, Pia, Ada, Ida.......
"If you are looking for a word for anything...the Greeks will have one......"
......like the faternities and sororities in America: Phi Beta Kappa, Alpha Chi Rho, Delta Kappa Epsilon, Delta Upsilon, Omega Psi Phi, Sigma Pi, Zeta Psi, etc.
P.S. There are over 50,000 Greek words in the English language (even more in the French language and other Europian languages) with contains approx. 500,000 words, the Greek language contains 70,000,000 words including, derivatives, medical and scientific.....
A Slave is he who cannot speak his thoughts. Euripides
The word "Greek" is not so much a term of birth as of mentality, and is applied to a common culture rather than a common descent. Isocrates
"If I am a Poet, I owe it to the air of Greece" - Lord Byron
"We are all Greeks" - Pery Bysshe Shelley
and last but not least, this one from my ancestor, Alexander
the
I, (Grandfather of Alexander the Great), "I Would Not Like To See Greece
Enslaved, As I Am A Greek too, of
this Ancient Nation......."
"BRING BACK THE GREEKS." "The one and only antidote to the spiritual toxins poisoning our civilization today, is a return to Greek scholarship. Bring back the Greeks!" says Bruce S. Thornton, professor of Classical and Anthropological Studies in the Department of Foreign Languages and Philology, at the University of California at Fresno. This interview is, in effect, an alarm being sounded by another "Hellene" (in the true sense of the word). More and more such men and women are coming to the realization that the millenniums-old "cultural capital" bequeathed to us by the Greeks must not be dissipated: It must be cherished, replenished, and used to save humanity from destroying itself. Hellenism is the only "ism" that is universally accepted and sought after by every living being on this planet. No other method of ordering society has had such world-wide appeal.
"HELLENISM WILL NEVER DIE" says Classics professor Victor Hanson, who with his colleague and fellow Classics professor, John Heath, discuss their book Who Killed Homer? with Davlos correspondent, Nancy Biska. "[Hellenism] is the first and last hope for Mankind. ... We are so fortunate that those 'relatively poor' Greeks of the 8th to the 4th centuries B.C. developed such a brilliant and indestructible civilization. ... [It is] the one and only institution in the world under which we can all unite while adhering to the principles and values of the West that they bequeathed to us. We are all Greeks now, whether we want it or not!"
ALPHABET & LANGUAGE
Frederico Sagredo's Letter to the Spanish Minister of Culture & Education (NEW), wherein, as a distinguished professor of Greek, and president of the Hellenic Academy of the Basque Region of Spain, he restates his demand that ancient Greek culture, language, and civilization be taught to the young of Spain, and then, using the Spanish model, to all Europeans.
Like-minded Members of the European Parliament (M.E.P.) also brought a proposal to the floor in Brussels -- on four separate occasions -- that ancient Greek be adopted as the official language of the European Union. It should be noted that a proposal may only be brought four times before it is tabled.
Hebrew is Greek is the title of the book that almost disappeared from the face of the earth after its publication in 1982. In it, the author, Joseph Yahuda, lawyer, linguist, and researcher, convincingly demonstrates that the Hebrew language is, in Yahuda's own words, nothing more than "Greek wearing a mask." His unbiased search for the truth qualifies Mr. Yahuda to be considered a Hellene himself, as this designation is, according to Isocrates' definition, more a quality of character and mentality than it is of blood.
Hellenic Quest is the name of CNN's web page where Apple Computer Company's new program, designed to teach the ancient Greek language electronically, will soon be featured. Initially, instruction will be offered to learners whose native language is English or Spanish. The course will be accompanied by sound and graphics.
Apple executive, John Stalik, in announcing the launching of this new product, said: "We decided to promote the learning of the Greek language worldwide because our [global] community requires a tool which will encourage and enable creativity, will allow the infusion of new ideas, and will offer the ability to absorb concepts and knowledge that have been beyond the ability of most people to grasp till now. In other words, the manifestation of an ecumenical trend to return to the spirit and language of the ancient Greeks." In a related development, British entrepreneurs encourage their upper echelon management personnel to learn ancient Greek because of its unique importance in the management and organization of their operations. This was the conclusion reached by British specialists, who found that: "The Greek language imposes rationality and increases leadership skills. This is why it is such a valuable tool not only in the areas of communications and technology, but in organization and management."
The unique attributes of the ancient Greek language are what prompted the University of California at Irvine to codify its riches in its now renowned Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. The brainchild of Professor of Classics, Marianne MacDonald, and made possible by the Ibycus system of David W. Packard, the TLG contains 6,000,000 word-forms [lektikoi tipoi] of the Greek language, whereas English has a total of 490,000 words and 300,000 technical terms ... The TLG contains 8000 literary works,.. and the effort continues [to publish more works] with subsidies provided by the American government. [This while our "grekili" politicians have succeeded in the virtual elimination of the teaching of ancient Greek in the "Greek" school system. Ed.]
Responding to the question of why so much money should be spent upon the preservation and teaching of the ancient Greek language, distinguished professor Bruner [who worked on the project] replied: "It has to do with the language of our ancestors, and our ability to establish contact with them will enhance our culture."... The interest of scientists in the fields of Information Technology and Computer Science in the Greek language stems from the fact that: "The advanced technology of super computers will only accept the Greek language, as it is the only language capable of the comprehensive transmission of meaning." All other languages are considered to be merely "semiotic," whereas Greek is "noematic."
A noematic language is one in which the "sign," i.e., the word, has a protogenic relationship to the object, situation, or idea that it is expressing. A semiotic language is one in which the "sign," or word, signifies the object, situation, or idea because common usage and consent have determined that that is what it means. In conventional languages, a word has been designated to mean something; in the Greek language, there exists an aetiological relationship between the object and the word, something non-existent in all other languages.
The most advanced data systems, "Gnosis," and "Neuton," replicate the word-forms of the Greek language totally, and in perfect diagrammatical representations, something impossible to do with other languages. This is because Greek words have a mathematical structure that allows for their harmonious and geometrical depiction. Especially useful are such Greek combining word forms as "micro," "mega," "scope," etc. Computer scientists consider the Greek language "limitless." In other words, only in the Greek language are there no boundaries, and that's what makes it indispensable to the new disciplines of Information Technology, Communications, Electronic Cybernetics, and others.
In such sciences and disciplines, only the Greek language gives them the necessary noematic expressions they require, and without which it will be impossible for science to advance. Ibycus, Gnosis, Neuton: the most advanced data systems programs in the world; from Vladivostok to California, from the Artic to the South Pole, only the Greek language can meet all of their demanding requirements. Source. Davlos. October 2002. pp. 16197-8. Translation by staff. Emphasis added.
Konstantinos Efstathios-Georganas' article on the book Hebrew is Greek, by Joseph Yahuda, offers convincing proof that although Yahuda proves conclusively that "90% of the Hebrew language is of Greek origin," had he continued his research, he would have discovered that in actual fact the percentage is much higher. In this article, Georganas shows that many words and symbols that are still believed to be of Semitic origin are borrowings from the Greek.
Phoenician Deception The evidence proving that the "Roman" alphabet we use today is, in fact, a Greek invention is overwhelming. In spite of this, however, the myth that this alphabet was invented by the Semitic Phoenicians is still being taught in the schools. Why?
"Homo Erectus Trigliensis ... ": Our Macedonian Ancestor. An account of the heroic struggle of Dr. Aris Poulianos who tells us that "...after decades in Macedonia, and more specifically in the Cave of the 'Archanthropus of Petralona,' in Halkidiki, I brought to light ground-breaking proofs of the existence of the oldest erect and intelligent European man ever discovered. Archanthropus lived more than 700,000 years ago; he originated here, in Northern Greece and the Northern Aegean, and he represents the very beginning of the family of man. Besides Archanthropus, I discovered the oldest traces of fire, over 1 million years old, and, most recently, the tibia [shin bone] of a standing man who lived approximately 11 million years ago [Homo erectus trigliensis]. My finds have been verified by eleven of the most prestigious universities in the world, and have been certified and endorsed at ... two international anthropological conventions ... where Archanthropus was declared to be the oldest intelligent inhabitant of our continent. ...
RELIGION
The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery.
George Bernard Shaw
A people that thinks dinner consists of eating a deli sandwich from Arby's while watching Friends [on TV] is neither Christian nor civilized.
Dr. Thomas Fleming
America's Debt to Greece and Christianity is the title of this quick study showing the enormous influence Religion and Hellenism have had on the creation of America. The usual distortion is that the Founding Fathers of that once-great and universally admired land were mostly influenced by English, French, and ancient Roman political thinkers, with a comment or two concerning Polybius and Aristotle thrown in. What is seldom mentioned is that these English, French, and Roman writers were, in most instances, merely parroting what they'd learned from the Greeks. Read Locke, Montaigne, Sallust or Cicero for instance, and you will be amazed at how many times they rely on and refer to the Greeks to support or prove their arguments. Just as the Fathers of the Church used Greek philosophy, history, and poetry to bolster their arguments to support and spread Christianity, the Founding Fathers of America gave the world the kind of nation that the Greeks had envisioned, written about, longed for, and created a long time ago. Most of the Founders knew this, and, in making their famous choice between "Athens and Jerusalem," chose Athens and Jerusalem. That is, the power and creative dynamism of a free people living under a Democratic Republic, together with a devotion to God through our unique Christian faith.
A reading of John 12. 20 - 24 says: "Now among those who went up to worship at the festival were some Greeks. They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, and said to him, 'Sir, we wish to see Jesus.' Philip went and told Andrew; then Andrew and Philip went and told Jesus, who answered them by saying: 'The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.'" But according to Professor E. Prokos (Alpha Ena. 3 May '02), his research in the Vatican Library in 1974 showed that Christ's words did not stop there. Professor Prokos wrote and lectured throughout Greece on how -- according to a manuscript of Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (A.D. 263-339) that he discovered in the Vatican -- Jesus continued with the following: '[For] Hellas is where the seed of humanity was first sown; proven to be a heavenly plant and a divine creation. A place where thought was facilitated through the use of science." [Eelthen ee ora ina doxasthi o Yios tou Anthropou. Ellas gar moni anthropogenni, fyton Ouranion kai vlastyma Theon ikrivomenon. Logismon apotiktousa oikeioumenon epistimin.] That last part, according to Professor Prokos, had been purposely excised from the New Testament by the Latin Church. We are pleased to see that this little-known distortion is beginning once again to get the attention it deserves.
SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY
Archimedes Greek mathematician and inventive genius.
Cement used in the construction of a 3000 year-old ancient Greek cistern is of a better quality than cement used today.
Christophoros Columbus: A Byzantine Prince from Chios, Greece, is the title of this book by Ruth G. Durlacher-Wolper, founder-Director of the New World museum, San Salvador, Bahamas, and Chief Executive Officer of the New World Foundation. In this well-documented study, the author presents "a new theory clarifying the identity of [the renowned mariner]." He was also an accomplished geographer and map-maker, as well as an explorer and adventurer.
Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the earth with amazing accuracy by making two assumptions: a) that the earth is round, and b) that the sun's ray's are essentially parallel.
Pyramids are to be found in Greece today. According to the most advanced dating methods, they are at least as old, if not older, than the pyramids of Egypt. A TGR staff member visited the pyramid located in the village of Helliniko, in the Peloponnesus, and drew on that experience, as well as other sources, to write a report. Also read the article on the same page about "The Stepped Pyramid at Thebes."
The Heliocentric System (NEW) is displayed in the tile floor of the central tholos altar of the Temple of Asclepius at Epidauros. This mosaic shows the sun as being at the center of seven revolving planets. It is currently on public view at the museum at Epidauros. The fact that the earth was round and that it revolved around the sun was known to the ancient Greeks. In his recently published book, Aristarchus the Samian's work on the size and formations of the Sun and Moon [Peri Megethou kai Apostimaton Iliou kai Selinis tou Aristarchou tou Samiou], mathematician and writer, Evangelos Spandagou, displays a copy of a page of the original manuscript of the book, De Revolutionibus Orbium Celestium, by the Polish astronomer, Copernicus, where his debt to the Greek astronomer (Aristarchus) is acknowledged. Unfortunately, Copernicus struck out the lines referring to this in the manuscript just before the book went to the printer. The acknowledgement and the lines crossing it out are plainly visible in the book, and constitute another example of the glory of Greek achievement being usurped by lesser men for their own unworthy aggrandizement..
SPORTS
Okulpiaj|r >lmor The Olympic Hymn
Aqwa_o pme}la ah\mato, acm] pat]qa Ancient immortal spirit, pure father
Tou yqa_ou, tou lec\kou jai ta akghimo} Of the beautiful, the great and the true,
Jat]ba, vameq~sou, ji astqax ed~ p]qa Descend, appear, and emblaze this place
Stg d|na tgr dij^r sou cgr ji t ouqamo}. With the glory of your own earth and sky.
Sto dq|lo jai sto p\kela jai sto kih\qi In the race, the grappling, and the toss,
Stym eucem~m ac~mym k\lxe tgm oql^ Kindle the impulse in all noble contests,
Jai le ta al\qamto stev\myse jkym\qi Crown with the perennial wreath,
Jai sideq]mio pk\se jai anio to joql_. And fashion the steely and worthy body.
J\lpoi, boum\ jai p]kaca v]ccoum laf_ sou Plains, mountains, and seas glow in your presence
Sam ]mar keujop|qvuqor l]car ma|r Like some great clear porphyrous shrine,
Jai tq]wei stom ma|m ed~ pqosjumgt^r sou, And every nation hurries here to your temple
Aqwa_om pme}l ah\matom, j\he ka|r. In supplication, ancient immortal spirit.
Jyst^r Pakal\r (1859-1942) Costis Palamas (1859-1942)
Translation from original Greek by: Sotiris Sotiropoulos, Canada )2001. All Rights Reserved.
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Athletics According to the Ancient Greeks. The Athletic Ideal was a virtue (arete) much prized by the ancient Greeks. Though there may have been exceptions, this ideal was strictly upheld by the vast majority of the participants in their many festivals featuring competitive sports. The most important of these was the Olympic Festival, which occurred every four years, and was an expression of a value system which placed good, clean, sportsmanship, as an educational tool for the young, above merely winning. Unless the modern Olympics are once again invested with the spirit of the ancient Olympmas agsn, and brought back permanently to Greece, they will continue on their present path of becoming nothing more than the athletic manifestation of "drive-in churches," "TV-weddings," and "reality-show-entertainme
nt." Disneyland-style commercialism, and the "bread and circus" atmosphere of the Colosseum, have absolutely nothing to do with the Athletic Ideal demonstrated in the Olympics of ancient Greece.
Hockey was played in ancient Greece, together with soccer and the ancient form of golf!!!!. Even the "hot cross bun" was an ancient Greek invention, the circular bun representing the moon and the cross representing the four quarters....
WOMEN
Agnothiki, a woman doctor of Athens. Women doctors -- something not even imaginable in the rest of the ancient world -- were not considered an uncommon phenomenon in ancient Greece. Even in Greece today, close to fifty percent of the medical doctors are women, and no one thinks this to be in the least bit troubling or unusual. Perhaps the reason is that educated women in modern Greece somehow manage to remain completely feminine, and one finds, when conversing with them, that they consider the radical feminists in America to be rather funny and pitiful creatures who've "lost their way" when it comes to the matter of their true natures. In this article we highlight an incident which we found to be informative because,1) it tells an interesting story about a woman doctor in Athens, 2) it shows that women doctors sometimes had to contend with the prejudices of their male colleagues (something that women in America and Europe had to put up with right up to the 20th century), and 3) that the law courts in Athens could and did dispense real justice, without letting the sex of the interested parties influence their decisions.
We also mention a sampling of 20 or so other female doctors, and challenge our readers to let us know about any other country or place in the world which -- from circa 1400 B.C. to circa 1400 A.D.-- could boast hospitals, sanatoriums, and doctors of both sexes who were formally trained in the art, science, and practice of medicine.
Hypatia. A great scientist, learned in mathematics, astronomy, and philosophy. A woman who should be the role model of modern "feminists," or anyone -- male or female -- who admires those qualities which separate humanity from the brute beasts and give meaning and dignity to our lives.
Sappho. The "greatest of the lyric poets" of ancient Greece was born (ca.612 B.C.) into an aristocratic caste on the island of Lesbos. Sappho -- pronounced Sap FSE, (Psapphs, in her own dialect) -- was married to a rich man from Andros. Her world was one of girlhood, marriage, motherhood, and love. Much of her poetry was associated with a religious purpose, centered on the worship of a female deity -- Artemis, Hera, or Aphrodite. She also wrote songs (poetry) for women's festivals, wedding celebrations (epithalamia), and on the poignancy of parting when one of her students had to leave to assume her wifely responsibilities. An ancient papyrus published in 1974 states: "[S]he, in peace and quiet, educat[ed] the best women not only of the local families, but from all over Ionia."
How many university students today (or even university graduates for that matter) know anything at all about this remarkable woman? How many would be able to recite even one stanza of her poetry? The answer to that question would say a great deal about the kind of educational priorities in a given society, and would provide a cultural barometer by which they could be measured.
THE HELLENIC LANGUAGE
In this webpage of ours we'll present you with the latest evidence proving the ancestry of Hellenic language (as a consequence that the alphabet IS NOT a Phoenician invention) as well as some of its unknown features (such as i.e. that there is a great similarity of ancient Greek with a) the language of the Hawaii Islands inhabitants and b) the language of Ketsua - inhabitants of the Peruvian Andes).
The most important of the facts that prove the ancestry of the Hellenic language over the rest,
are the following :
the discovery of the linear writings A' and B' by A. EVANS at Crete in 1947 and the decryption of linear B' in 1952..
the discovery of the Phaestus Disk in pressed-type iconographic writing system.
the discovery of a wooden plate inscribed with linear A' at the Dispilio of Kastoria which currently constitutes the most ancient sample of writing in the world.
The Hellenic language is the most perfect human achievement in the linguistic field. And this, of course, is not incidental. Because 'the thought of a people is perhaps more directly expressed in the structure of language than in any other of his creations' (Kitto). This language, therefore, is the creation of people with superior thought and mental consistency. The qualities characterizing the language of the Hellenes, also characterize their being. Proof is that the same qualities (clarity, providence, power, expressional wealth etc) are found in their mental and artistic creations.
The inevitable conclusion is that the Greek language wasn't brought by some semi-savage tribe from its 'northern mountains' or 'the northern plains'. (Note of "UHH" - as the supporters of the indoeuropean origin of the Greek language claim-). It existed ab initio and developed in the same place for thousands of years. Its an evolution product of millennia. And the language that the Achaeans spoke or wrote was the continuation of the Pelasgian language and writing. This language, initially (Protohellenic) became diversified with the spread of Aegeans (Protohellenes) in vast (and distant from the metropolis) regions.
Thus arose the multiple Greek dialects and the relative to it languages of other nations (Iapetic homoglossy=Hellenic originated languages). As far as the writing is concerned, Sleeman and Evans proved that it was in use at the Aegean at least from 2,500 B.C. and the latest researches (inscriptions at Ithaca's Pilakata and Dispilio of Kastoria) raised it to the sixth millenium (5,250 BC).
Symbols - letters from protocycladit jar of Milos
(midle of 3rd milenium b.C.).
You can see "X" and "N" letters of the Greek Alphabet
From the book "WHO THEY WERE" by G. Georgalas, TOTE publications
SAMPLES OF THE HELLENIC LANGUAGE AT HAWAII ISLANDS
Heidenburg University published in 1987 the German researcher's N. Josephson book entitled 'GREEK LINGUISTIC ELEMENTS IN THE POLYNESIAN LANGUAGES - GREEK PACIFIC' in which exist comparative catalogues between 808 Hellenic words and their corresponding Polynesian ones. This linguistic influence at the Pacific Ocean islands was provoked, according to Josephson, around 950 B.C. by Greek colonists....
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| REPLIED Saturday, March 20, 2004 11:35:32 AM |
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| REPLIED Tuesday, May 18, 2004 07:07:16 PM |
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| REPLIED Sunday , November 28, 2004 08:00:34 PM |
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ilija the great
Member
fairfield,NJ
POSTS: 3
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REPLIED Sunday , November 28, 2004 07:45:44 PM
AGC....quit spreading propaganda. Macedonians were not Greek, they were Macedonian. The language spoken at the time, by the aristocrats and intellectuals was Greek, so that is how soe Macedonians spoke Greek. Secondly Aegean Macedonia, which you refer to as Northern Greece, belonged to Macedonia for over 2000 years. Greece only had it for about 70 years (since WWI). Just because us Macedonians are half slav, does not change the fact that we are also half Macedonian (ancient Macedonian, of no relation to Greeks). Many Greek historians reeatedly said that the Macedonians were "barbarians", often discribing people who were not Greek, and who did not use the Greek language (except for the aristocrats). On top of that, the Macedonians were not allowed to participate in the Olympics, while the other Greek States, such as the Spartans were. Don't make some bullshit up about Macedonia being to mountainous, so it would be hard for them to get to the Olympics. Lastly, look at the facts. Genetic research has been done in Spain (click on the following lnks to see the results http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/AncientGenes.html) These results show that present day Macedonians and Greeks have different genes then each other. The Macedonians have certain genes, that are not present in either Greeks or slavs, like serbians and russians.
Once more I say, LOOK AT THE FACTS. Look at us Macedonians. We generally do not look like other slavs (serbians and russians). We are short, usually have dark hair. While, the slavs are characteristically a tall race, usual with a blondish hair color. And we certainly do not look like the Greeks. Short, hairy, dark, and dare I say, ugly people.
If you want the real facts....check this site out http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/
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ilija the great
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fairfield,NJ
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REPLIED Sunday , November 28, 2004 07:48:39 PM
WHY THE MACEDONIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN GREEK http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/MacedoniansNotGreeks.htm
l
WHY THE MACEDONIANS ARE NOT SLAVS (ACTUALLY HALF SLAVS) http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/MacedoniansNotSlavs.html
GENETIC RESARCH 1 http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/AncientGenes.html
GENETIC RESARCH 2 http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/Y-chromosomes.html
THE DESCENDANTS OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT (THE TRUE MACEDONIANS) http://www.historyofmaced
onia.org/ConciseMacedonia
/donski.html
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ilija the great
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fairfield,NJ
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REPLIED Sunday , November 28, 2004 07:53:55 PM
AGC, please show me atleast one book or website, written non-biasly, by a non-greek or non-american saying that Macedonians are Greek (with concrete evidence), such as the genetic resarch done in Spain. I know you can't, because it is all propaganda. I hate to say it, but you Greeks are worse then the Albanians, and I can officially say, there is not one Greek in the world that I like. (I don't like people who don't recognize me, or that don't even acknowledge that I exist
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| REPLIED Sunday , November 28, 2004 08:05:44 PM |
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Quotes from the ancient and modern historians
"The fight was further embittered by the old racial rivalry of Greek and Macedonian" - Arrian
"When oaths to this effect had been sworn and the Greeks were interspersed among the Macedonians, Pithon was greatly pleased, seeing that the affair was progressing according to his intentions; but the Macedonians remembering the orders of Perdiccas and having no regard for the oaths that had been sworn, broke faith with the Greeks. Setting upon them unexpectedly and catching them off their ground, they shot them all down with javelins and seized their possessions as plunder. Pithon then, cheated of his hopes, came back with the Macedonians to Perdiccas" - Diodorus 18.7.8-9
"The Macedonian army, which will have the exclusive status, was to be supported by the Greek army and by the armies of the adjacent conquered nations" - Justin 9.5.5-8.
"Antipater was appointed governor of Macedonia and Greece" - Justin 13.4.5
"His Majesty Alexander to Darius: Greetings. The Darius whose name you have assumed wrought utter destruction upon the Greek inhabitants of the Hellespontine coast and upon the Greek colonies of Ionia, and then crossed the sea with a mighty army, bringing the war to Macedonia and Greece" - Curtius
"Neither Greeks nor Macedonians considered the Macedonians to be Greeks." Borza
"The conclusion is inescapable: there was a largely ethnic Macedonian imperial administration from beginning to end. Alexander used Greeks in court for cultural reasons, Greek troops (often under Macedonian commanders) for limited tasks and with some discomfort, and Greek commanders and officals for limited duties. Typically, a Greek will enter Alexander's service from an Aegean or Asian city through the practice of some special activity: he could read and write, keep figures or sail, all of which skills the Macedonians required. Some Greeks may have moved on to military service as well. In other words, the role of Greeks in Alexander's service was not much different from what their role had been in the services of Xerxes and the third Darius." Borza
"If one wishes to believe that Alexander had a policy of hellenization - as opposed to the incidental and informal spread of Greek culture - the evidence must come from sources other than those presented here. One wonders - archeology aside - where this evidence would be." Borza
On the ethnic tension between Macedonians and Greeks, referring to the episode of Eumenes of Cardia and his bid to reach the throne: "And if there were any doubt about the status of Greeks among the Macedonians the tragic career of Eumenes in the immediate Wars of succession should put it to rest. The ancient sources are replete with information about the ethnic prejudice Eumenes suffered from Macedonians."
Borza
"The tension at court between Greeks and Macedonians, tension that the ancient authors clearly recognized as ethnic division." Borza
"The main evidence for Macedonian existing as separate language comes from a handful of late sources describing events in the train of Alexander the Great, where the Macedonian tongue is mentioned specifically." Borza
"Greeks and Macedonians remained steadfastly antipathetic toward one another (with dislike of a different quality than the mutual long-term hostility shared by some Greek city-states) until well into the Hellenic period, when both the culmination of hellenic acculturation in the north and the rise of Rome made it clear that what these peoples shared took precedence over their historical enmities." Borza
"They made their mark not as a tribe of Greek or other Balkan peoples, but as 'Macedonians'. This was understood by foreign protagonists from the time of Darius and Xerxes to the age of Roman generals." Borza
"What did others say about Macedonians? Here there is a relative abundance of information", writes Borza, "from Arrian, Plutarch (Alexander, Eumenes), Diodorus 17-20, Justin, Curtius Rufus, and Nepos (Eumenes), based upon Greek and Greek-derived Latin sources. It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded the Greeks and the Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples whose relationship was marked by considerable antipathy, if not outright hostility." Borza
"The suggestion is surely that Macedonian was the language of the infantry and that the Greek was a difficult indeed a foreign tongue to them". Badian
"Alexander never tried to impose Greek on his Macedonian infantry, or to integrate it with Greek 'foreign' individuals". Badian
"Philip had not tried to pass of his Macedonians as Greeks" Badian
"The Colonels, as it happened, promoted Alexander as a great Greek hero, especially to army recruits: the Greeks of the fourth century B.C., to whom Alexander was a half-Macedonian, half-Epirote barbarian conqueror, would have found this metamorphosis as ironic as I did." Green
"Macedonia was the first large territorial state with an effective centralized political, military and administrative structure to come into being on the continent of Europe". Green
"And though Philip did not give a fig for Panhellenism as an idea, he at once saw how it could be turned into highly effective camouflage ( a notion which his son subsequently took over ready-made). Isocrates had, unwittingly, supplied him with the propaganda-line he needed. From now on he merely had to clothe his Macedonian ambitions in a suitable Panhellenic dress." Green
"The Greek states retained no more than a pale shadow of their former freedom". Green
"The Greek states were to make a common peace and alliance with one another, and constitute themselves into a federal Hellenic League. Simultaneously, the league was to form a separate alliance with Macedonia, though Macedonia itself would not be a league member." Green
"Philips Panhellenism was no more than a convenient placebo to keep his allies quiet, a cloak for further Macedonian aggrandizement." Green
"Most Greek statesmen recognized this only too well. To them, their self-styled hegemon was still a semi-barbarian autocrat, whose wishes had been imposed on them by right of conquest; and when Alexander succeeded Philip, he inherited the same bitter legacy of hatred and resentment - which his own policies did little to dispel." Green
"In the early spring of 336, an advance force of 10,000 men, including a thousand cavalry, crossed over to Asia Minor. Its task was to secure the Hellespont, to stockpile supplies, and in Philips pleasantly cynical phrase, to liberate the Greek cities." Green
"This was the Panhellenic crusade preached by Isocrates, and as such the kings propaganda section continued - for the time being - to present it. No one, so far as we know, was tactless enough to ask the obvious question: if this was a Panhellenic crusade, where were the Greek troops?" Green
"The truth of the matter seems to have been that Alexander distrusted his Greek allies so profoundly - and with good reason - that he preferred to risk the collapse of his campaign in a spate of rebellion rather than entrust its safety to a Greek fleet." Green
"But then, Eumenes was a Greek, and Macedonian troops, especially the old sweats who had served under Philip II, were never really comfortable being led by non-Macedonians." Green
"I deliberately refrain from adopting any position on the linguistic status of ancient Macedonian. It has little significance outside the nationalistic propaganda of the contemporary Balkan states, in which prejudice and dogma do duty for rational thought. What matters for the present argument is the fact, explicit in Curtius, that Macedonian was largely unintelligible to non-Macedonians. Macedonians might understand Greek, and some Greek (like Eumenes) with experience of Macedon might speak Macedonian. However, even Eumenes took care that a vital message was conveyed to the phalangites of Neoptolemus by a man fluent in Macedonian (MAKEDONI/ZONTA TH]=FWNH]=:PSI 12. 1284,col. ii. 19-20).] "Alexander shouted out in Macedonian, and called the hypaspists in Macedonian." In my view there is nothing at all surprising in the use of Macedonian. Alexander was calling his hypaspists, who were Macedonians, and he addressed them in their native language/dialect." Bosworth
"The Macedonians themselves were not Hellenes; they belonged to the barbaric races, not greatly differing from the Greeks in ethnic type, but far behind them in civilization, which bordered Hellas upon the north. They were a distinct race, not Paeonian, not Illyrian, not Thracian; but, of the three, their connection was closest with the Illyrians." Rawlinson
"It is thus not surprising that the Macedonians considered themselves to be, and were treated by Alexander the Great as being, separate from the Greeks. They were proud to be so." Hammond
"He knew from experience that in the eyes of the Macedonians he was still a Greek, a foreigner. Plutarch praised his charming and refined manners, which were very unlike the haughty airs of the noble Macedonian officer." Jouguet
"The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians have grown into a proud masterful nation, which with highly developed national consciousness looked down upon the Hellenes with contempt. This fact too is of prime importance for the understanding of later history." Wilcken
"Philip II of Macedonia (359-336), who made his country into a major power, virtually controlling the mainland Greek city-states, intended to lead his and their forces against the two-centuries-old Persian (Achaemenid) empire, which ruled over huge territories extending from the Aegean to Egypt and central Asia. Philip's motives were mixed: revenge for the Persian invasion of Macedonia and Greece in the previous century, annoyance because the contemporary Persians had at times aided the king's own Greek opponents, a desire to wipe out the only large-scale potential enemy to the Macedonians that was still in existence - and pure lust for expansion." Grant
"In 334 BC, at the head of 40,000 Macedonian and Greek troops, he (Alexander) crossed the Hellespont (Dardanelles) and confronted the Persian advanced forces on the river Granicus (Can Cayi), winning a victory which enabled him to conquer western and southern Asia Minor." Grant
"Reading the lesson of his times, and making the proved inferiority of citizen militia to standing forces, and of the capricious rule of the many to an imperial system under a single head, he evolved the first European Power in the modern sense of the word-- an armed nation with a common national ideal. This, his own conception, he understood clearly and perused consistently through twenty-three years. Surely such a man may be called great for what he was." Hogarth
"Isocrates had long been urging the Greeks to combine in a war of conquest against Persia, and had latterly incited Philip to lead the enterprise. But Isocrates evinced little concern for the ' enslavement ' of the Asian Greeks or desire to revenge the atrocities of the Persians in 480-479.62 In his conception a Panhellenic crusade would promote peace at home and provide the Greeks with new lands on which to settle their surplus population; Philip was to be content with the glory of benefiting the Greeks by victories over the barbarians.63 If we can believe the ' vulgate ', Callisthenes may well have shared this na1ve idea, for we are told that he reminded Alexander of his original purpose, to annex ' Asia' to Greece (iv 11, 7). It is quite unlikely that either Philip or Alexander ever entertained such a purpose. They could allege Macedonian casus belli: in the fifth century the Persians had invaded Macedon as well as Greece, and in 340 they had helped Perinthus to repel Philip's attack; Alexander even had the impudence to add that Darius had been guilty of hostile acts against him-after Philip had already invaded Asia (ii 14, 4 f.). But all these were surely pretexts. Conquest must have been the real purpose." Brunt
"Macedonian and Greek were mutually unintelligible in the court of Alexander the Great" R.A.Crossland
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| REPLIED Monday , August 08, 2005 10:35:11 AM |
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Actually the "issue" about if Macedonians are Hellenes or not is artificial and quite new.It was created when after WWII,the Yugoslavian communist leader Tito desided to name the southest area of his state "Macedonia",just like that.
The post below is mostly a quoting from an old post of mine at Stormfront,written about a year ago.
This post, shall endeavor to provide you DreamDeceiver,and to the members of this forum with historically accurate information,to the best of the writer's
ability.Proving that Hellenes and Macedonians are one and the same.
THE BATTLE OF PYDNA 168 B.C., AND THE SUBJUGATION OF THE NORTHERN GREEKS TO THE ROMANS
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The Roman Consul, Aemilius Paullus, the subject of a Plutarch's Roman
Life, a brilliant strategist, and a somber, deeply religious,
virtuous and austere man, defeats the allied Greek army of the last
King Of Macedonia Perseus Philippou. Perseus' allies, included the
Epirotae (i.e. those Greeks from Epirus) and the Northern Illyrians.
NOTES/ETYMOLOGY OF GREEK NAMES:
PERSEUS:
Perseus (mythology), in Greek mythology, son of the God Zeus and
Danae, daughter of King Acrisius of Argos, Pelloponesus.
FILLIPPOS/PHILIPPUS:
Greek, philos-friend, ippos-horse, thus Filippos-He who likes horses.
[Encarta. 98 Desk Encyclopedia ) & 1996-97 Microsoft Corporation.
All rights reserved].
THE NORTHERN GREEK REVOLT OF 148 B.C. LED BY ANDRISCUS
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Paullus being the truly great man he was, graciously allowed
Macedonia to retain her independence, but the Greeks of Thessalia,
Macedonia and Thrace, being angry and upset at the Roman Occupation,
revolted under the leadership of a certain Macedonian known as
Andriscus, who claimed to be the son of the late King Perseus
Philippou.
This rebellion was however easily quelled by the Romans, and
Macedonia's independence was forfeited. Subsequently, Macedonia,
Epirus, Illyria, and Thessalia were fused together to become the
Roman Province Of Macedonia.
NOTES/ETYMOLOGY OF GREEK NAMES:
ANDRISCUS: Greek, aner (andras)-man, iskos/iscus-diminutive, thus
"Andriskos"-little man.
BATTLE OF LEUKOPETRA, ISTHMUS, 146 B.C.-THE SUBJUGATION OF THE SOUTHERN GREEKS TO THE ROMANS
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The Roman Consul Leucius Mommius crushes the allied army of the
Achaean Confederacy. In the aftermath of the battle, the Roman
Senate decreed that the remainder of Greece (i.e. from Thessalia
southwards, but not inluding Thessalia), was to form another Roman
province, henceforth known as the Roman province of Achaea.
SUMMARY: The Romans did not name the remainder of Greece from
Thessaly southwards, "Provinincia Graeca" but instead "Achaea province"thus recognizing that the latter province did not encompass
all of the Greek territories. Similarly, they named Northern Greece,
("Voreia Ellas") "Macedonia" due to Macedonia's Imperial past.
NOTES/ETYMOLOGY OF GREEK NAMES:
Leucius: Greek, leucus/leukos-white, "white/of pale complexion".
ACHAEA: Homeric Name for Southern Greece, and the Southern Greeks.
Used by Homer, the famous early Greek poet who wrote the Iliad and
the Odyssea.
[SOURCES: Encarta. 98 Desk Encyclopedia ) & 1996-97 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved-"Istoria ton Archaeon Chronon eos to
30 P.X." Panteion University Of Athens-Translated to English, by the
undersigned].
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CHAPTER I:
PROTO-GREEK (i.e. EARLY GREEK) HISTORY: AN INTRODUCTION
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Archaeological evidence and historical testimonies point out that
circa 2200-2100 B.C. the Greek-speaking tribes are found settled in
the general area of the Northern Pindus mountain range. These tribes,
are the same tribes that are believed to have unattached themselves
from the main body of the family of the Indo-European peoples during
the 5th millenium B.C., and have been subsequently scattered over the
area which is known today as Northern Greece [i.e. historical
Macedonia].
In the first centuries of the 2nd millenium B.C., there arise three
main Greek-speaking groups.
a. The South-East Group (in the general area of North-western
Thessaly); the most characteristic tribe of that group were the
Ionians.
b. The Eastern Group (in the general area of Western Macedonia),
divided into two dialectic groups, namely & respectively, the Acarnanian
and Aeolic.
c. The Western Group, where the most populous appears to be the tribe
of the Makednoi.
During the same time frame, the above Proto-Greek tribes,
chronologicaly led by the Ionians, start their gradual "descent"
towards the south. There, they shall come in contact with other Pro-
Greek [T.N.: -pro- here denotes more ancient than and/or before
than], known as the Creto-Islanders who have attained a high level of
culture.
Following on the tracks of the Ionians, the same route to the South
will be followed by the Eastern Tribes, which use the Aeolic dialect.
From these tribes, who include amongst others, the Achaians, the
Lapithae and the Minyae, the Mycenean civilization will be
established.
The Western Tribes, and most notably the Μakednoi, will shortly
thereafter break-up. One of their tribal groups, will migrate towards
the Steraea Ellas and the Pelloponesus at South.
Another will settle in the area of Doris, where they will mix with
the local population, and will finally be named"the Dorians".
A third Makednoi tribal group will migrate to Thessaly, while the
fourth group, the Makedonians will prosper in the geographical area
of present-day West, South, and Central (Greek) Macedonia.
This fourth tribal group, the Makedonians, Greek-speaking like the
other three tribal groups, will choose not to migrate to the South,
but instead will remain for many centuries distanced from the rapid
cultural progress of their kinfolk tribes, who had benefited from
their contact with the advanced civilization of the Creto-Islanders.
THIS BRIEF INTRODUCTORY SUMMARY OF THE MIGRATION OF THE GREEK-
SPEAKING TRIBES FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH, EXPLAINS THE REFERENCE TO THE CLOSE TIES OF BLOOD BETWEEN THE DORIANS AND THE MAKEDONIANS OFTEN ENCOUNTERED IN THE WORKS OF THE ANCIENT AUTHORS. ACTUALLY, THE MAKEDONIANS ARE NOT DORIANS, BECAUSE AS WE HAVE SEEN ABOVE, THE NAME "DORIAN" IS LESS ANCIENT THAN THE NAME "MAKEDONIAN" BUT RATHER, THE DORIANS ARE MAKEDONIANS, SINCE BOTH TRIBES BELONG THE SAME LANGUAGE GROUP, THAT OF THE MAKEDNOI, FROM WHOM THE DORIANS DETACHED THEMSELVES IN ORDER TO MIGRATE TO THE SOUTH.
During the 8th Century B.C., the formerly distanced Makedonians,
slowly begin to surface to the forefront of history. In the 7th
Century B.C., the region of Orestiis (present-day Kastoria) is
mentioned by the ancient historians of the era as the seat of the
Makedonian Dynasty of the Argiadae and Temenidae. To make a side note
here, the name of the Makedonian Dynasty of the Argiadae gave to some
early historians the impression that those Makedonian Kings were
descended from Argos, Pelloponesus.
Today, many scientists believe that, that it is not from the
Pelloponesean Argos that the latter Argiadae Kings are desended, but
from Argos Oresticon (South of the modern city of Kastoria). The
documented existence of the name of Argos in the region of Orestias,
is another piece of evidence that underlines the common ethnic and
linguistic roots of both the Makedonians and the other southern Greek
tribes. Consequently, in both cases, the name of "ARGOS" is an
autochtonous name and not borrowed from elsewhere.
During the 7th and 6th Century B.C., the Makedonians move to the East
of Orestias, and subsequently settle in the provinces of Pieria,
Bottiaea (Bermion area), Aeordea (present-day Ptolemais) and Almopea
(present-day Aridaea). Next, they move past the River Axius, and
closely approach the borders of Chalcidici.
The older tribes who used to live there i.e. the Pelasgians etc., are
being repulsed and in some cases assimilated. In the meantime, the
relative isolation of the Makedonians from the Southern Greeks, has
already begun to be waived, through the founding of colonies in
Chalcidici, and the increased activity in sea-commerce. Thus, a rapid
cultural ascension is noted in Makedonia, which reaches its apogee in
the days of the Makedonian Kings, Amyntas, Philippos II, and
Alexander the Great.
The fact that the Makedonians were a part of the Greek world is hard
to be disputed today. The new archaeological discoveries along with
etymologycal analyses, as well as the unearthing of numerous new
ancient inscriptions -ALL WITHOUT A SINGLE EXEPTION GREEK-featuring
a rich variety of Greek names, prove beyond the slightest shadow of
doubt that there is not even a brief discontinuance, neither
cultural, nor linguistic of the cultural unity of the Makedonians
with the rest of the Greeks.
To take a different view of the matter, the spread of the Hellenistic
culture, and of the Greek language, throughout the known world by
King Alexander the Great and his successors, is the most absolute
proof of this fact.
And each year, this fact is continuously proven and proven again, by
the new arhaeological findings, unearthed either during the extensive
excavations of Pella, or Vergina, or Dion, or Sindus, or in tenths of
less known locations, namely at:Boion, Kozane, Kastoria, Florina,
Edessa, Aridaea, Cilcis, Kavala, and last but by no means least,
Thessalonica and Chalcidici.
Lastly, ending this chapter, I would like to add that Makedonia, was
the gateway Christianity used to spread the Gospel in Southern Greece.
Let us remember the vision Apostle Paul had one night in Troy, which
influenced to a large extent the future course European matters were
to take. Paul dreamt of an unknown Macedonian Man, who spoke to him
in Greek,saying:"Come to Macedonia and help us". [Acts 16, 8-9].
It is truly notworthy that,Paul addressing the Macedonians wrote his
epistles and preached in Greek.
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CHAPTER II:
MACEDONIA: MYTHS, LEGENDS, AND HISTORICAL FACTS, AS PRESENTED BY
HERODOTUS, HESIOD, AND OTHER CLASSICAL GREEK AUTHORS. -------------------------
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"...According to Greek mythology, the ethnarch of the Macedonians,
was the son of Zeus and Aethra, daugther of Deukalion. His name
was "Makedon", and thus it was that his descendants came to be known
as "Makedonians".
"...Other Greek myths held that Makedon was the son, not grandson of
Deukalion, and a brother to Hellen, son of Deukalion."
"...The name Makedon in the Doric Dialect means, "he who is long"
or "he who is tall". [Greek, from Makos=Mekos, length]. Thus the
Macedonians are believed to have been tall and well built."
"...Yet another myth held that Makedon or Makednus, was the son of
Lycaon, King Of Arcadia, and a grandson of Pelasgus, who is said to
have been the first person who set foot on the Greek peninsula,
having sprung up from the ground."
"...Herodotus the Father Of History, writes that Macedonia was
inhabited by the Pelasgians, an Early Greek people. Homer, the early
Greek epic poet, makes numerous references to the Pelasgians in his
epics, numbering the traces that they have left behind of their
presence in Greece, like for instance the Pelasgic Walls of the Early
City of Athinae. Some claim that, the Pelasgians were autochthonous,
while other say that they were an Indo-European tribe that originated
in Northern Central Europe."
"...According to the local Macedonian myth, their first King was
Karanus, son of Temenos, the King Of Argos. Temenos, along with
Kresfontes and Aristodemus were the three Doric leaders who invaded
the Mycenean Pelloponesus, and smashed the Mycenean civilization.
Then they proceeded to divide the conquered territories between them,
with Kresfontes being given Messenia, Sparta and Laconia taken by
Aristodemus, and finally Temenos was given Argos. Following the death
of Temenos, the Princes argued about who should be king. One of them,
Feidon, managed to defeat his brothers in battle, and to usurp the
kingship. Karanos then, decided to find some other country where he
could be King. First, however he went to the Oracle of Delphi to ask
Pythias' advice. "You should find your kingdom there, were you will
find plenty of game and domestic animals, was her advice." Thus
Karanos and his entourage moved to the North, in search of suitable
land to establish his new kingdom. Finally, he discovered a green
valley, with a lot of game and goats, whereupon he thought that the
prophecy of Pythia has been fulfilled. Thus he built a city there,
which he named "AIGAE" [Greek: Aiga-goat]. [present day Vergina, a
site of substantial archaeological activity, as numerous important
findings have been unearthed."]
"...Another version of the same myth is presented in one of the
tragedies of Euripides, namely "ARCHELAUS"."
"...From the name of their capital, AIGAE [Greek: Aiga-goat], the
goat was one of their sacred symbols. This is attested by the
engraving of a goat, in many Macedonian coins."
"...A desendant of the Argian Dorians was thus the first King Of
Macedonia, according to the myth. But this myth, hides inside it, the
seed of truth, like almost every myth. All the subsequent Macedonian
Kings, believed that they were descended from the Dorians and Temenus.
And because the Dorians, were also known as the "Heraclidae" (i.e.
Herculeans) because they were said to be descended from the Hero
Heracles . Consequently, the MACEDONIANS WORSHIPPED HERACLES AS THEIR ANCESTOR. He was their National Hero, a fact proven by the numerous
shrines and temples devoted to him, by the numerous inscriptions
found to refer to him, and finally, by his face which is found carved
in many objects and marbles. The coat of arms of King Philippus II,
found engraved on his shield at his tomb in Vergina, is Heracles' War
Club."
"...The name "Macedonia" is first mentioned by Herodotus, the Father
of History. Homer only refers to the Pelasgian tribes that used to
inhabit Macedonia, prior to the arrival of the Dorians/Macedonians.
Homer also mentions the NORTHERN NEIGHBOURS OF THE PELASGIANS, KNOWN AS PAEONAE, AND THEIR KING, PYRRAICHMES WHO TOOK PART IN THE SIEGE OF TROY."
NOTES/ETYMOLOGY OF GREEK NAMES:
[PYRRAICHMES: Greek, Pyrros=red, aichme=point of the sword, or
arrowhead.]
HISTORICAL SAYINGS OF MACEDONIANS:
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ALEXANDROS I, KING OF MACEDONIA
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[Adressing the envoys of the King Of Persia]
"When you go back to whence you came, back to your King, tell him,
that you have been well received by a GREEK KING."
ALEXANDROS I, KING OF MACEDONIA, 496 B.C.
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[Adressing the Hellanodicae, the officials of the Olympic Games]
"I came hither as a Greek, son of a Greek, to take part in the
Olympic Games"
(At first he was denied participation as a non-Greek, but he was able
to produce evidence proving his Greek ancesry and was thus allowed to
ake part in the Games, whereupon he won, and was immortalized as an
Olympionices)
ALEXANDER THE GREAT ADRESSING THE DEAD HELLENES OF THE BATTLE OF CHAERONIA:
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"HOLY SHADOWS OF THE DEAD, I AM NOT TO BLAME FOR YOUR CRUEL AND
BITTER FATE, BUT THE ACCURSED RIVALRY WHICH BROUGHT SISTER NATIONS,AND BROTHER PEOPLE, TO FIGHT ONE ANOTHER. I DO NOT FEEL HAPPY FOR THIS VICTORY OF MINE. ON THE CONTRARY I WOULD BE GLAD BROTHERS, IF I HAD ALL OF YOU STANDING NEXT TO ME HERE, SINCE WE ARE UNITED BY THE SAME LANGUAGE, THE SAME BLOOD AND THE SAME VISIONS."
[Curtius Rufus, Historia]
DEMARATUS, CORINTHIAN STRATEGOS (General): -------------------------
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[Adressing Alexander, on the occassion of his being prolaimed Marshal
Of The Greeks, by the Pan-Greek conference of Corinth.]
"At this moment, Greece and Macedonia feel jubilant delight",
whereupon Alexander replied:
"But you naive man, Macedonia belongs to Greece as well"
ALEXANDER THE GREAT:
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[Inscription found scribbled on all the loot Alexander send back to
the Oracle of Delphi to honour God Apollo]
ALEXANDROS FILIPPOU KAI OI ELLINES, PLIN LAKEDAEMONION.
ALEXANDER SON OF PHILIPPUS, AND THE HELLENES (GREEKS) EXCEPT THE
SPARTANS.
ALEXANDER I, KING OF MACEDONIA, 496 B.C.
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[Adressing the Allied Greek Army's representatives opposite the army
of Mardonius, acting Field Marshal of the Persian King Xerxes I, on
the eve of the Battle of Plataea]
"Because I am Greek too, and seeing your indesisiveness, I feared
that you may srike camp and run away, I came to tell you that the
morale of Mardonius' army is in it's lowest ebb, and I strongly urge
you to strike tommorow when Mardonius least expects it."
Quite frankly, I could have proceeded to write tenths of pages more,
with referrence to the ties between the Achaeans,Dorians and the Macedonians,the Southern and Nothern Greeks.
The Dorians,Achaeans and the Macedonians, kinfolk, brother people, were
Greece's very best. If it wasn't for them, Greece would have
certainly occupied subsantially less space in World Ηistory than she
does now.
I do sincerely hope so that this post has been of assistance to you.
__________________
Alexander the Great addressing the dead Hellenes of the battle of Chaeronia:
"Holy shadows of the dead,I`m not to blame for your cruel and bitter fate,but the accursed rivalry which brought sister nations and brother people,to fight one another.I do not feel happy for this victory of mine.On the contrary,I would be glad brothers if I had all of you standing here next to me,since we are united by the same language,the same blood and the same visions
-Curtius Rufus- "Historia" |
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| REPLIED Monday , August 08, 2005 10:46:42 AM |
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| REPLIED Monday , August 08, 2005 11:03:06 AM |
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In 1944, with the predominance of the Communist Party of then-Yugoslavia, Marshall Tito, for reasons of political expediency and given his ambition for territorial expansion southward toward a warm water port in the Mediterranean, arbitrarily renamed the area named officially until then Vardarska -- as shown in the 1939 Yugoslav postage stamp -- but also known as South Serbia, to the Socialist Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and its inhabitants Macedonians.
Titos decision was also a consequence of the 1921 Moscow resolve by the Comintern (the Communist International) and the Balkan communist parties to pursue autonomy for Macedonia, and to include this most strategic region into the Communist camp.
After 1944, with the Yugoslavian Communist Party initiative and tutelage, four nonexistent constitutive elements of the created pseudo-Macedonian nation were manufactured:
1. Authority: a Macedonian Government and Parliament.
2. Language: the Slavic dialect of the Bulgarian language spoken in the area was named: Macedonian Language and, because as a dialect it lacked linguistic characteristics syntax, orthography and grammar, a special committee was formed and assigned the project of transforming the dialect into a language.
3. Religion: the atheist Communist Party established in 1968, but only in Skopje, the autocephalous Macedonian Orthodox Church which is not recognized by any orthodox patriarchate, including the Serbian, nor even by the Vatican.
4. History: the three-volume History of the Macedonian Nation was published and circulated in 1969, self-appropriating all of Macedonias events and personalities of the past four millennia, shamelessly forging the history of the glorious fatherland of Aristotle and Alexander the Great. Certainly, we all remember the distortions the Skopjans were advocating: Alexander the Great and his predecessors and his descendants not being Greek but Macedonian, and speaking not Greek but Macedonian; new Macedonia maps depicting the areas in Greece and Bulgaria being under occupation; the White Tower on their money depicting Thessaloniki -- which they call Solun as their capital and, later, the Sun of Vergina as their flag symbol; and many others.
Macedonia and Macedonians are Greek terms and no one else but the Greeks ever applied them or has the right to apply them.
By historical accounts, a Macedonian nation never existed in the past nor does it exist today. Macedonians were Greeks, they believed in the same gods, they used the same tongue Greek, and they shared with the other Greeks the same vows to the gods.
The historical and the political fraud of the Skopjans is revealed by the facts of history in at least four ways:
I. Historical Background
A. The Slavs arrived in the Balkans during the 6th Century A.D. This is a historical fact that was also admitted by Skopjes ex-Nazi, former Communist and Tito protege, and its new super-nationalist first President Kiro Gligorov (David Binder, The New York Times, January 30, 1992 & Marline Simons, The New York Times, February 3, 1992).
B. In the 9th Century, two Greek brothers and monks, Cyril and Methodius, illuminated them on orthodoxy and taught them their Slavic language. Cyril is credited with inventing the Cyrillic alphabet, thereby providing a tool for the Slavs to learn to write their own tongue. Accordingly, the Slavs cannot and do not have any historical connection before the 6th Century nor any political bond prior to the 9th Century. The Macedonians existed in Greece over three millennia before.
C. The borders between Greece and Serbia were defined in 1913 on the basis of the advances of the armies of the two nations during the first Balkan war. The border between Greece and Bulgaria was defined at the Treaty of Bucharest. Since then, the borders of the three nations had remained the same.
D. Macedonia, a region mostly of Greece since ancient times, was divided into three perhaps even four parts, with Greece keeping the largest portion of about 50%, then-Yugoslavia receiving about 35%, Bulgaria about 10% and a small percentage eventually ending in Albania. The Greek people on the portion of
the Macedonia part in Greece have been there since time immemorial -- over more than forty centuries before the Slavs arrived. The language spoken in the Greek region since antiquity is Greek, whereas the language of the former-Yugoslavia portion is a Slavic dialect of Bulgarian (Marline Simons, The New York Times, February 3, 1992). As a matter of fact, the portion of Macedonia in then-Yugoslavia was part of the Eastern Branch of the Roman Empire. The people who ruled over Serbia spoke Greek. Constantinople was their headquarters. Their main trade was to the South and East (Joseph C. Harsch, The Christian Science Monitor, January 29, 1992).
Hence, where do the Skopjans come from? If, as the historical record clearly documents and Mr. Gligorov agrees, the Slavs came to the northern area of Macedonia in the 6th Century A.D., they are Slavs and, therefore, not Macedonians, who were Greeks. If, on the other hand, they had been there before, from the time of Alexander and earlier which they were not, both by
historical chronicles and by their own acceptance then they are Greeks, since Alexander himself, among all Macedonians, acknowledged his Hellenic birth, and the times of his tenure and before stand proof positive of their Greekness!
As all the ancient Greek city-states ceased to exist with the prevalence of the Romans after 168 B.C., so did Macedon. Since then, Macedonia, like all the other Greek regions, remained a geographical area.
During the centuries of Turkish rule, the occupied lands were divided into localities, each identified after the major city of the area. This was due to Turkish forbiddance of Greek or historical names. Thusly, writers, freedom fighters and others became known as Righas Ferraios, Veniamin of Lesvos, Constantine Dosios Macedonian, Christopher Parraivos of Thessaly, Dominic Theotokopoulos as El Greco, and organizations such as Macedonian Educational Association of Serres, Macedonian Association Alexander the Great, etc.
The portions of ancient Macedonia which were inhabited primarily by Greeks but were captured by the Serbs and the Bulgarians, eventually were incorporated into Serbia and Bulgaria respectively. The portion which was freed by the Greek army [and in which my own father fought I am proud to say --and was wounded on the last day of the battle in the capture of Thessaloniki] is todays Greek Macedonia. All the worlds maps published between 1913 and 1944 referred to Macedonia only as Greek, for all knew and recognized Macedonia as an integral part of Greece.
After 1944, the Communists manufactured a Macedonia in then-Yugoslavia and Bulgaria, and sustained their argument in the division perpetrated by the Romans for their own security in their time.
During the reign of Philip II, the Greek region of Macedonia contained most of modern-day Bulgaria. However, when the Bulgarians conquered that territory they incorporated it into the Bulgarian nation.
E. In 1919 Serbia incorporated Croatia and Slovenia in establishing the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, known as Kraljevina, Srba, Hrvata I Slovenaka. If a Macedonian nation had existed, then it would have been the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, Slovenians and Macedonians. The Kingdom was dissolved by the Germans in their 1941 invasion. If, therefore, World War II had not occurred, or if after the War the Communist Party had not ruled, there may not have been a Macedonia issue today.
E. The term Macedonia was not given only to the portion of the area which belonged to ancient Greece but to the entire region, including Skopje, which was not part of ancient Macedonia. Thus, as regional inhabitants, all the Bulgarians and the Greeks in their respective regions, and the Serbs and the Albanians in former South Serbia, were called Macedonians in the regional sense, as regional inhabitants. Today, the Albanian minority in the region perhaps as large as 800,000 object at being called Macedonian citizens rather than Macedonians in the regional sense.
The Skopjans are attempting to make an issue out of a Slavo-Bulgarian dialect into a so-called Macedonian Language. There never was a Macedonian language. The ancient Macedonians, being Greek, spoke Greek. All their writings which are written in stone, literally attest to the Greekness of their language. As an excuse, the Skopjans are now changing their falsified story to yet another untruth, that Alexander the Great had been Hellenized. This is not the case.
Alexanders father, and their predecessors, all carried Greek names and they left us their Greek language written in stones. For example: Alexander (Αλέξ
ανδρ&
#959;ς means defending man, Philip (Φίλι
ππος means admirer of horses, Aristotle (Αρισ
τοτέ&
#955;ης means good end, etc. In fact, the very terms of the inhabitants of the region itself are Greek: Macedonian (Μακε
δών means tall, and Macedonia (Mακεδ
;ονία means the land of the tall, including trees, for the Macedonian region is blessed with high forests.
This pseudo-Macedonian language -- the really Slavophone dialect is a mixture of idiomatic expressions derived from Greek, Slavic, Albanian, Turkish, some Latin (remnants of the Romans), and plenty of Bulgarian. This latter influence is the reason linguists identify it as a Bulgarian dialect. History shows how this dialect came about.
The region of northern Macedonia was the crossroad of many armies and traders from the Romans to the Turks. The original Greek inhabitants were conquered by the Romans. Then the Slavs moved in during the 6th century A.D. The Byzantines who were the next rulers used Greek. The Bulgars, as neighbors who traded between the area and Byzantium, had enormous influence on the spoken tongue.
Finally, the Turkish occupation of nearly five centuries also had considerable influence on the spoken word. In addition, the existence of Greeks, Slavs, Turks, Bulgars and Albanians cohabitating the area contributed significantly in the development of this dialect. Consequently, therefore, if the Skopjans wish to call this dialect a language which truly it is not, they must give it a proper name: Vardarian, Skopjan, or whatever is the true identity of their area of habitat.
It is also significant to consider the exchange of populations that took place during certain periods. Between 1919 and 1936, there was an exchange of populations between Greece and Bulgaria. The exchange brought 46,000 Greeks from Bulgaria to Greece, while 96,000 Bulgarians from Greece went to Bulgaria. In addition, the Turks departed from the region of Macedonia left to Greece. (Too bad they did not depart from Thrace also.) On the other hand,
Serbia did not exchange populations in South Serbia with Bulgaria. It is for this reason, therefore, that problems had existed between the two nations, Serbia and Bulgaria, and one of the reasons that influenced Tito to rename in 1944 South Serbia to the Socialist Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia with the hope that it would end Bulgarian expansion aims toward that territory. Incidentally, the exchange of populations was monitored by the League of
Nations under the watchful eye of Henry Morgenthau, the former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey during the course of the Armenian Genocide by the Turks, who was the first chairman of the Refugee Resettlement Commission of the League in Greece, and who wrote in his 1929-published book, I Was Sent
To Athens:
(a) Soon after Athens had reached the height of its glory under Pericles in the 5th Century B.C., and had started on its decline, the rise of Macedon under Philip carried Greek influence into new regions (p. 9); and,
(b) When I crossed into Macedonia, I realized that this was the soil from which Philip of Macedon had gone East to conquer
Thrace and from Which Alexander the Great carried Greek civilization across Asia Minor, Persia, the Indus River to the gates of Delhi, leaving behind Greek settlements that had colored the life of the Near East for two thousand years (p 92).
II. Irrefutable Rudiments of the Greekness of the Macedonians
A. The ancient Greeks had placed the habitat of their gods on Mount Olympus, in Macedonia. It would have been totally inconceivable for the Greeks to have placed the habitat of their gods in a non-Greek, barbarian territory.
B. The ancient Greeks also placed the habitat of their nine Muses in Osa, another Macedonian mountain, in the province of Pieria.
C. Hesiod, the ancient Greek poet from Boeotia, refers that the Macedonian son of Zeus and Pandora was the forefather of the Macedonian people.
D. The Greek folk hero Herakles (Hercules), son of Zeus, was considered the head of the Macedonian people.
E. In his Greek Political Oratory, the Athenian orator Isocrates addresses Philip of Macedon: I intend to urge you to take the lead in a movement for Greek unity and in the campaign against the non-Greek world.
F. In his Campaigns of Alexander the Great, the Latin historian Arrian wrote: As an offering to the goddess Athena, he sent to Athens 300 full suits of Persian armor, with the following inscription: Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks (except the Lacedaemonians) dedicate these spoils, taken from the Persians who dwell in Asia.
G. In his famous The History of the Peloponnesian War, the great Athenian historian, Thucydides, wrote: The part of the country on the sea-coast, known as Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and by his ancestors, who were originally Temenids from Argos.
H. Herodotus, the Father of History, writing on the origins of the Hellenic race in his Greek Historical Thought, states that the Macedonians were Dorians: the nationalityin the time of Dorus, son of Helensettled in Pindus and acquired the name of Macedni From Pinduseventually passed into the Peloponnese, where it came to be known as Dorian.
I. In his immortal work: The Iliad, around 800 B.C., Homer wrote about Achilles, the great hero of the Trojan War, calling upon his Pelasgian-Dodonean God, Zeus, to come to the aid of his friend Patroclos in the battles with Hector, the Prince of Troy:
Lord Zeus, Dodonean-Pelasgian Zeus, you who lives far away and rules over wintry Dodonis, surrounded by your prophets the Helli, who leave their feet unwashed and sleep on the ground
Over four centuries later, the Macedonia-born great Greek philosopher, Aristotle, wrote: Ancient Hellas is the land Dodoni and Achellous where the Helli dwelled, called the Greci, now Hellenes.
Thus, the divine poet and the great thinker tell us that the origins of the Greeks derive from the northern territories of what became Epirus and Macedonia. Of course, it is also both significant and relevant that by the 3rd Century B.C., King Philip of Macedon married the Epirote Princess Olympias, from which union was born the military genius Alexander the Great. From the earliest of times, therefore, we find that the northernmost territories of Greece were Greek, indeed.
J. The Macedonians were members of the Council of Delphi, and only Greek states were eligible and accepted for membership.
K. At least ten Macedonians won in as many Olympic Games, in which only Greeks could compete.
L. According to Herodotus, the Macedonian King Alexander II (grandfather of Alexander the Great), in registering with the Olympic committee to participate in the Games, registered as descendant of Hercules, son of Zeus.
M. Three ancient theaters still exist in Macedonia, those at Dion, Philippi and Vergina. The ancient Greek playwright Euripides wrote the tragedy Bachaee in Pella, a play with
Macedonian theme which premiered in Dion. Euripides died and was buried in Macedonia. It should be noted that in the ancient world only the Greeks had theaters, until the arrival of the Romans who copied the Greeks.
N. Macedonia, therefore, is Greece, wrote Strabo, the Pontus-born, Roman-era historian and geographer who lived circa 68 B.C. 19 A.D.
III. The Holy Scriptures
There are several references in the Bible and the Talmud, and also in the Koran, identifying Alexander the Great and the Macedonians as Greeks.
A. Old Testament
1. Alexander, son of Philip of Macedon, after his victory came out of the land of Chitim and crushed Darius, king of the Persians and the Medes, and reigned in his place after he had already become ruler [king] of Greece (Maccabees, 1:1.1).
2. After he [Alexander] fell sick and perceived he was dying, he summoned his most honored officers and companions from his youth, and divided his kingdom while still
alive (Maccabees, 1:1.5).
3. Antiochusbecame king in the one hundred and thirty-seventh year of the kingdom of the Greek [Seleucids of Macedonia] (Maccabees, 1:1.10).
4. And the he-goat is the king of Greece [Alexander]; and the great horn between his eyes is the first king. As for his horn that was broken, in place of which four others
arose, four nations shall rise from this nation, but not with his powers (Daniel, 8:1-22).
Hippolytus, Bishop of Rome from 217 to 222 A.D., wrote a commentary on the text of Daniels prophesy, which has been preserved in Greek, Iberian and Slavonic (Nicolaos K. Martis, The Falsification of Macedonian History, p.61). The Bishop wrote: And the he-goat coming from the west he calls Alexander of Macedon, King of the Greeks (Hippolytus, Commentary on the Prophet Daniel I, p.26).
B. New Testament
1. they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paulwent inand some of them were persuadedas did a great many of the devout Greeks
(Acts, 17:1-4).
2. many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men (Acts, 17-12).
IV. The Sun of Vergina
The 16-pointed star Sun of Vergina, discovered in the 1977 excavations as the symbol of the royal Macedonian dynasty of ancient Greece, and which is now being claimed as their own by the Skopjans, was widely used in Attica during the classical period
long before its adoption by the Macedonian royal house. The star, identical with the one decorating the larnax discovered in the tomb of Philip II, father of Alexander the Great, at Vergina in Northern Greece, has been found as one of the elements of decoration on at
least four temples of the classical era, including two on the Acropolis of Athens. The same symbol can be seen also on a 4th century B.C. urn on display at the Museum of Naples in Italy. It was found in Carnossa, Italy and depicts a form inscribed with the
word Hellas and flanked by the figures of Zeus and Athena. An interesting issue came to light regarding the Sun of Vergina being adopted as the flag symbol by Skopje. In the late 1940s, after Tito proclaimed South Serbia the Socialist Yugoslav Republic of
Macedonia, the new republic had three symbols from which to select its new flag: the Albanian eagle, the Bulgarian lion, and the star [not sun] of Vergina which it finally chose. Since the star was not the sun that we know for it was not excavated
until 1977 , it was an ordinary sun, half-risen from behind a mountain, surrounded by a wreath centered by a small five-pointed star, an enormous difference from the Sun of Vergina that Professor Manolis Andronicos excavated in 1977.
It is also important to look more deeply into the self-evident falsehoods created by the Skopjans which overturn the main foundations of their of their communist-inspired and communist-invented myth:
1) 1) They allege that Alexander the Great, his father Philip and their ancestors were Macedonians and not Greeks! If this wrong logic were to be accepted as fact, then there were no Greeks then and there are no Greeks now, for Leonidas was Lacaedemonian, Pericles was Attican, Epaminondas was Boeotian, Pyrrhus was Epirote, Homer was Chian (unless we accept the version of the late Turkish President Turgut Ozal who, in his book: Turkey in Europe, wrote that Homer was a Turk, as well as Aristotle), and so on, including Dominic[os] Theotokopoulos who signed his great art as El Greco. Therefore, according to the Slavic Skopjan revisionist historians, none of the Greeks should be considered Greeks. This entire distortion of history is refuted, however, by what has been aforementioned, namely: historical documents, myriads of irrefutable rudiments, the Holy Scriptures (including the Koran which refers to Alexander as the king of the Greeks), and the preserved archaeological monuments all written in stone, and STONES DONT LIE!
2) Skopje propounds itself as the cradle of Slavic orthodoxy, and connects their church with the Macedonians [not the Greeks] even though through the (Greek) monks Methodius and Cyril. This claim is refuted by Pope John Pauls 1990 circular, in which he declared the two Greekmonks Heavenly protectors of Europe.
3) The Skopjans allege that Samuel was Macedonian, and that during his reign from 1000 to 1018 A.D. in Achris he founded the first Macedonian nation. Samuel, however, was Bulgarian.
It was for this reason that Emperor Basil II, who descended from the glorious Macedonian dynasty, when he was victorious over Samuels forces was named +Βουλ
γαρο&
#954;τόν&#
959;ς; {Bulgar-slayer) and not +Μακε
δωνο&
#954;τόν&#
959;ς; (Macedonian-slayer). In addition, an inscription written in an old Bulgarian language, dated 1017, discovered by a Yugoslav archaeologist in Montenegro, makes reference to that Samuel preesnted himself to be of Bulgarian ancestry.
4) The Skopjans claim the 1902-03 insurrections as the national Macedonian uprising. This is refuted by the reports of the six foreign consuls, the dispatches of foreign journalists stationed in the area at the time, and the reports of historians all of whom referred to these disturbances as local uprisings of Bulgarians known as komitazes. Dr. Wayne Vucinich, former professor of history at Stanford University and author of Serbia Between East & West, wrote in 1960: in 1902, two Bulgarian officers precipitated an uprising in the vicinity of Bitoljand in August an insurrection was suppressed within two monts.
Also of significance is the is the Skopjans deception of the Vatican in 1986, when they exhibited at the Vatican Museum icons depicted as Macedonian. This was strongly denounced by the Archbishop of Athens, resulting in an immediate Vatican statement:
(a) not recognizing the Church of Skopje, and (b) that it was deceived by the Skopjans. Since then, Pope John Paul has taken several measures against the Skopjans, including his 1989 decision to stop addressing his Christmas and Easter messages also in the so-called Macedonian language. This particular action constitutes the most significant Catholic condemnation to the non-existence of pseudo-Macedonia.
There is also the issue of Greek inscriptions. In all of antiquity, in all of Macedonia, there never was an existence of any inscription in or of the so-called Macedonian language, anywhere. This, of course, is clearly evident from the fact that the Slavs of the northern Macedonia region did not arrive there until the 6th Century A.D., and their Slavic Bulgarian dialect did not even have a written form until Cyril devised an alphabet for them in the 9th Century. As Dr. Guliano Bonfante, former professor of romance languages at Princeton University wrote in 1960: The language now spoken as Macedonian is a Bulgarian dialect. It has no connection with the ancient Macedonian (Greek) except for the fact it is spoken in the same region.
All the historical documents -- from Herodotus and Plutarch to the Old and New Testaments, and from other historians after the House of Philip Dynasty -- have shown nothing other than the Hellenic period of nearly three centuries from Philip, through Alexander the Great, to Alexanders successors. Also, it must be emphasized that it was due to the Macedonians that the Greek language -- their language -- and Greek civilization their civilization -- were spread throughout the known world of the time, and influenced the Old Testament to be translated into Greek and the New Testament to be written in Greek. Furthermore, Greek was the language that was used to transmit Christianity throughout the Greek-speaking world of which Macedonia was an integral part.
An excellent example is Alexandria in Egypt, where the Macedonian Ptolemies established first their rule and then their influence for seven centuries, and where the laboratory sciences: anatomy, astronomy, biology, chemistry, geography, mathematics, physics, zoology, etc., advanced. It was in Alexandria also where the Theological Academy functioned during the 2nd and 3rd centuries A.D., and where the Greco-Christian civilization laid its early foundations. Throughout the period, the Macedonian Ptolemies used nothing but Greek, for they knew no other language since Greek was their native tongue. Thus, the internationality of Hellenism and the universality of Christianity, both of which so decisively influenced the Romans, the Byzantines, the Renaissance, and the contemporary world of today, are the results of the works and the successes of Alexander the Great and his successors.
It is also necessary to mention the German invasion of Greece on April 6, 1941 during World War II. The attack came from the Bulgarian region against the Greek defense line in Macedonia, and after Turkey in agreement with Nazi Germany, abrogated its bilateral defense treaty with Greece only hours before the invasion. The battle of Macedonia was fought by the Greeks only, and so heroically that it surprised even Hitler himself. In central Macedonia, the fighters were above all Greeks, with few units of Australians, Britons and New Zealanders. Contrarily, when the Germans entered Skopje the capital of the South Serbian Vardarska province of then-Yugoslavia after only a three-day military campaign, the German army was received as liberators with thousands of Bulgarian flags flying. As Professor Vucinich wrote in 1960: During World War IIthe followers of IMRO (Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization)were supported by Fascist Italy, Hungary, Germany, and BulgariaAt the end of World War II, the control of [northern] Macedonia passed to the Yugoslavian Communist Party, and became a new source of trouble in the Balkans. It was from [Titos created Socialist Yugoslav republic of] Macedonia that Communists organized [their] activity against Greece in 1947 and 1948.
The Greek nation paid a very heavy price to defend the homeland:
685,000 homes destroyed, 100,000 of its people killed, and 29,000 of its children abducted to the Socialist Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to be converted for their eventual return to Greece as communists and separatists. It is also significant that this Greek Civil War as it was called was the only one won against communists without American forces actively participating, but with American materiel aid, as then-NATO Supreme Commander, U.S. General James van Fleet strongly emphasized.
Last, but certainly not least, let us consider the significance of our United States foreign-policy facts of modern times and the importance of the statement of a recent and prominent United States Secretary of State.
Following Marshall Titos pronouncement of a Macedonian nation near the conclusion of World War II, on December 26, 1944 then-Secretary of State Edward Stettinius sent in immediate response the following Circular Airgram (868.014):
The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. This Government considers talk of Macedonian nation, Macedonian Fatherland, or Macedonian national consciousness to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic or political reality,
and see in its present revival a possible cloak of aggressive action against Greece, to which the Soviet Unions arch-Communist Joseph Stalin boasted in 1946: They do not have Macedonian consciousness, but they will.
In the final analysis, therefore, U.S. recognition of a state with the pseudonym Macedonia would tantamount to a Communist victory after the end of the Cold War on an issue that our nation opposed them during the Cold War.
Also, the statement by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger suffices to acknowledge, once more, that Macedonia, therefore, is Greece, indeed for, as he declared in Paris in 1992:
I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is I know history, which is not the case with most of the others, including most of the government and administration in Washington.
In view of all the above, it is absurd that after a recorded history of over four millennia the Greeks have to prove to the world all over again that Macedonia, therefore, is Greece, indeed. The preposterous Skopje theories of the existence of a Macedonian nation, of a Macedonian language, and of a Macedonian national consciousness are not only contrary to historical facts, but also offensive not only to the Greeks but also to every civilized human being!
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| REPLIED Monday , October 01, 2007 03:03:47 PM |
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quoted from the book
The Intelligent American's Guide To Europe by Erik von'Kuehnelt-Leddihn
Arlington House Publishers, New Rochelle, New York,
Copyright 1979
In his introduction the author states that this book offers the reader a chance to become acquainted with a ( not neccessarily"the" ) European viewpoint,
though he seems to know what he is talking about providing more than 1200 footnotes as evidence and examples.
from section, 30 / Yugoslavia,
paragraph 14
Another constituent "nation" in Yugoslavia is the Macedonians; they have their own federal state, though ethnically a Macedonian nation does not exist - it is a creation of the leading Yugoslav politicians after 1945. When the Serbs wrested Macedonia from the Turks and Bulgars in the first two Balkan wars
(1912-1913 ), they declared the Macedonian Slavs, i.e. these West Bulgars to be "southern Serbs." The Serbs of course, ignored the fact that the International Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (IMRO), dreaming of an independent multinational state
of Bulgars, Greeks, Vlachs, and Albanians, had fought the Turks for decades. Bulgars had led that organization, and the number of Serbs in the region was insignificant ( although Belgrade had financed Serb schools ) The Serb claim to Macedonia was based on the short-lived domination by Stefan Dusan and his coronation in Skopje, The Macedonian capital. So the fight that IMRO had waged against the Turks now continued against the Serbs, who retaliated with mounting savegery. A methodical denationalization was attempted: even family names ending, as most of them did, in ...ov or ...ev ( rarely in ...ski ) were changed to to end in ...ic. World Wars I and II brought Bulgar occupations of Macedonia, but the Communists conceived a shrewder idea than the ridiculous one that Macedonians were "southern serbs" : they were declared to be Macedonians pure and simple, and the local Bulgar speech was adapted to Serbian typewriters and printing presses, which meant the elimination of four Bulgarian letters. Encyclopedias in Western countries were, as a rule, stupid enuogh to fall for the trick; the Macedonians now figure in them as a brand-new ethnic unit. the trouble, however, is "Macedonian literature," since there is, needless to say, no such entry to be found in reference works for the period prior to 1945! The Bulgars continue, of course, to claim Macedonia while the Belgrade government, with apparent cleverness, demands the "liberation" of southwestern Bulgaria, inhabited by "Macedonians." In this connection it should not be
forgotten that the renaissance of the Bulgarian language came from Macedonia, which produced notable poets and writers.
What is this writer saying?
1) Ethnically a Macedonian nation does not exist - it is a creation of the leading Yugoslav politicians after 1945.
Is this because ethnically macedonians are Greek?
2) Family names ending, as most of them did, in ...ov or ...ev ( rarely in ...ski ) were changed to to end in ...ic.
3) A shrewder idea than the ridiculous one that Macedonians were "southern serbs" : they were
declared to be Macedonians pure and simple.
4) Local Bulgar speech was adapted to Serbian typewriters and printing presses.
5) Encyclopedias in Western countries were, as a rule, stupid enuogh to fall for the trick; the Macedonians now figure in them as a brand-new ethnic unit.
6) Re:"Macedonian literature," there is no such entry to be found in reference works for the period prior to 1945!
7) It should not be forgoten that the renaissance of the Bulgarian language came from Macedonia, which produced notable poets and writers. |
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| REPLIED Monday , October 01, 2007 03:43:57 PM |
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